IMBEL receiver/STG-58 project, 1st attempt

[Wadman]

Well, the first attempt to tighten the barrel onto the receiver didn't quite work out. Hand screwing the barrel on got it to about 10 o'clock. But that's about it. Applying over 100 lb/ft of torque barely budged it.

Since a lot of people have installed Steyr barrels onto IMBEL receivers, I'm assuming someone has had this experience. According to Gunplumber's instructions, if this happens, some material may need to be removed from the barrel shoulder. What's a typical starting amount? About 5/1000ths?

[RThomas]

I believe GP's instructions state that for every three file strokes, you remove 1 thousandth. If you follow the instructions, work in the pattern recommended, and use a magic marker, like Dychem to check for high spots things will go well. Be careful, it is very easy to take off too much metal.... RT

[Wadman]

Deltaten's response to a thread titled "Major sight adjustments" states that Steyr barrels usually run long on the shoulder. This would mean that you'd almost always have to take the shoulder down a few thousanths when mounting it to an IMBEL receiver.

Instead of filing, a friend is going to have it lathe turned at a machine shop. This way it'll be taken down a specific amount.

Anyone know how the other barrels go on? Argies, SA's, Izzy's, domestics... If there are specific qualities or tendencies that each countries' barrels have, maybe we could make an FAQ that would be helpful in the future.

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Also, it's off by about 6 degrees. My math is a little fuzzy. Anyone know how many thousanths to take off for that 6 degrees?

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Upon further thought, it's probably closer to 20 degrees, so that's about 3 or 4/1000ths.



[This message has been edited by Wadman (edited December 15, 2000).]

[Neira]

Wadman,

Are you finding the need for any special tools or jigs while you're building your rifle? I plan on building my own in the very short future. I was told by someone that to build a FAL you need a jig for installiing the barrel onto the receiver. To your knowledge is this true?

[Wadman]

ER, thanks for the reply. I'll finish this project yet!

Neira,
A well fitting receiver wrench is absolutely essential. There are parts on it that can't bear any stress such as the cocking handle rail and the gas tube. The other essential item is a wrench that fits exactly on the barrel flats. You don't want anything that might slip and begin rounding off the flats. A couple of places sell receiver wrenches and one often mentioned wrench is the Elliot Casey. DSA offers another brand by AGI.

[Deltaten]

Wadman:
Seems like a lot of work to true one up in a lathe just for .001"?. Not having spent much machineing since highschool, mebbe it's easier now. Let us know how you make out.

I've spun on three BBLs in the last week or so. One Belg., one SA(?) and one Steyr. The Steyr was the longest, mebbe .002, going by GP's "filing" guide. My Belg. was about the same. Other SA kit (Federal) only needed touching up on the threads and removal of some dings on the shoulder.

This third one "toasted" the wrench. For my money, the way to go is a set of BBL blocks, set in a BIG vise, and use a quality receiver wrench w/a BIG breaker bar. If I build anymore (yeah right!), I'll definitly go this route.

Neira:
A proper wrench for the receiver and the BBL is a BIG help! I've done the aforementioned w/only a cheap O/E wrench and a lead clad vise. I'm a glutton for punishment, and thank my lucky stars that I didn't "bend" a receiver. I was real careful, and went soooo slow. As much as you may want to slap it together NOW, be patient and get a rcvr wrench or get a 'smith to twist it up for you. It's gotta be cheaper than chancing a new receiver!
Lots of luck
Paul/Deltaten

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They call us the"Right", don't they?

[LarryB]

Wadman try this. www.stg-58.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000009.html (http://www.stg-58.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000009.html)

[Cosmo]

I tried the "poor mans lathe" listed on the stg58 page above. It worked, but it took alot longer to finish, it cost about twelve dollars for the disks and Dremmel drums because one just wasn't enough(I couldn't find any of the metalic reinforced disks that were recommended) It worked, and it did a uniform job all the way around. I didn't want to test my skills with a file on my first one but I will on the next one.

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[Steel Rat]

In our last episode, Wadman wrote:
A well fitting receiver wrench is absolutely essential. [...] The other essential item is a wrench that fits exactly on the barrel flats.

Everyone talks about receiver wrenches, but no one really says much about the barrel. My own trials with vises and large adjustables took their toll on a few barrel flats. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/eek.gif

A year or so ago Mark Powell offered a short run of Hesse barrel wrenches on Dep's mailing list:

http://www.mindspring.com/~kmeans/hesse_wrench.jpg

As you can see it's, appropriately enough http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif, a big "H". I believe you're supposed to use a 1" breaker in the bottom, and clamp down on the barrel flats with the bolt, but neither worked - I don't have anything to fit the short legs and there is no way you're ever going to get the long legs to flex with a 1/4x20 bolt.

But I've found that just by clamping the short legs in the vise it's more than stable enough. I use a Casey Elliot (http://www.angelfire.com/biz/tools4fals/) receiver wrench and a breaker bar, and merely place the barrel in the "H" and lean on it until the barrel is timed using the "rod through the gas block" method and eyeballing it.

I can't tell you just how easy this makes rebarreling FALs. It's now almost painless. My biggest problem is now my friends are bringing me FALs to work on like I'm some sort of Wizard, when I'm really just a Junior Hack. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif For instance, a friend of mine picked up a Century/L1A1 at a gunshow for $250 - someone decided to make it a carbine by chopping the barrel with a plumbing pipe cutter!! Needless to say it was not only unsafe, but it was so ugly that no one would even touch it for the $300 asking price. I told my friend to buy it, and we picked up a like-new L1A1 barrel with pristene handguards for under $20, and I pulled the old barrel and screwed the new one on in 10 minutes. The barrel timed with a different washer, but it headspaced on the original locking shoulder!!! I adjusted the gas ring and sighted it in, and it shoots great!! Now my buddy has Nice shooting FAL for ~$270. Of course, he still has to buy inch pattern mags. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

I don't what everyone else here does, but having a slot to rest the barrel flats in and turning the receiver works so well that I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Unfortunately these Hesse wrenches were a one-shot deal, and so far I haven't been able to find anything else that works, but I'm still looking for a 28mm or 1 3/32" open end wrench.

So what do the rest of you use?

[FootLongCuban]

I made my own gear. the barrel vise is a copy of the one Brownells sells (got the dimensions right out of the book), and the receiver wrench is my two ton mamma. Its about 20 pounds of cold-rolled steel and 24" longs. I barreled my first FAL using an open end wrench and my bench vise. 4 hours of blood, sweat and tears, vs. 15 minutes of "there that should do it". trust me when i say..."get the right tool for the job". -FLC http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1367727&a=10198448&p=34263489&Sequence=0&res=high http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1367727&a=10198448&p=34263506&Sequence=0&res=high

[BBBBill]

FLC, I have to plead guilty to doing the same thing w/ Brownell's catalog on numerous occasions. They shouldn't mind as I spend at least a couple thou' a year with them anyway.
Steel Rat, I'm glad you posted that pic of the Hesse bbl wrench. Such a simple idea! I've been useing my heavy milling machine vise for clamping. Works great, but somehow I just can't get happy about pulling that much torque on the vice. The "H" wrench will be easy to fab & will work as well without risking my mill vise again.

[Wadman]

Wow, that's a beefy setup, FLC. So you're turning the receiver onto the barrel. I was doing to opposite figuring that it would be easier to see when the barrel was TDC.

My buddy got the dust cover and handguards sandblasted for me. Damn if they aren't nice and shiny now. They have that nice brushed stainless look but I know they aren't. Any suggestions for painting them?

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Steel Rat,

I had the same problem of the wrench turning in the vise. Seeing your H shaped wrench gives me an idea though. How wide is the vise bar? If the bottom part of the H was wide enough to slip over the vise bar, would that help keep it from slipping?

[This message has been edited by Wadman (edited December 15, 2000).]

[Steel Rat]

In our last episode, BBBBill wrote:
Steel Rat, I'm glad you posted that pic of the Hesse bbl wrench. Such a simple idea! I've been useing my heavy milling machine vise for clamping. Works great, but somehow I just can't get happy about pulling that much torque on the vice. The "H" wrench will be easy to fab & will work as well without risking my mill vise again.

Just for general info, it's exactly 1/2" thick. I'm not sure what type of steel it's made from, but it sure is tough! It's survived all sorts of abuses like hammer-assisted death grips in the vise and beatings with a ball peen, and barely has a mark on it.

Unfortunately the "H" design is really awkward to hold - I actually have to open the jaws quite wide and clamp it on the edges to keep it from turning in the vise. If I was going to build one, I'd forget the bottom of the "H" and make a base that holds the uprights so they're perpendicular to the vise jaws, not parallel. If I could put 90 degree twist in the "H" right at the crossbar it would be perfect!

And, of course, if you manage to come up with something like this, be sure make enough for everyone. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/wink.gif

[FootLongCuban]

Originally posted by Wadman:
Wow, that's a beefy setup, FLC. So you're turning the receiver onto the barrel. I was doing to opposite figuring that it would be easier to see when the barrel was TDC.

Actually I have system for timing the barrel that is very simple and so far 100% accurate. I simply screw the barrel onto the receiver as far as it will go then screw in the gas tube and run the piston back and forth until it moves perfectly free. Once I have it exactly where I want it I use a large punch to "witness" mark the barrel AND receiver at the same time. See picture. This way when Im torquing my parts together I simply line up my witness marks. Now, bear in mind that I do this for PERFORMANCE. There is no gauarntee that your sights will line up perfectly. Then again if you gas piston doesnt travel freely you really have no use for the sights anyway as your gun wont work correctly. My sights come out fine, but its something to consider.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1367727&a=10198456&p=35524967&Sequence=0&res=high



[This message has been edited by FootLongCuban (edited December 16, 2000).]

[Wadman]

FLC, thanks! Very helpful pics also. I had to read your post a couple of times but I understand now. It's all pretty damn simple too. Screw in the barrel till the gas block lines up with the receiver extension, NOT till the barrel shoulder is flush with the receiver. Okay, next attempt is this weekend.

[FootLongCuban]

Yes you screw the barrel onto the receiver as far as it will go that will allow you to line up your gas system. The picture does not show the gas tube installed. After you test fit you assemble the gas system and run your gas piston back and forth through the receiver. When it moves freely mark the receiver and barrel with your punch being carefull not to move your parts. I mark in a few places so I have more points of referrence. You may also want to fill in the punch marks with White-Out or white marking crayon so they will be easier to see. Good luck. -FLC

[Steel Rat]

In our last episode, Wadman wrote:
I had the same problem of the wrench turning in the vise. Seeing your H shaped wrench gives me an idea though. How wide is the vise bar? If the bottom part of the H was wide enough to slip over the vise bar, would that help keep it from slipping?

The bottom part of the "H" is only 1 inch wide, so it's not nearly wide enough to fit over the vise bar. When I try and clamp down hard on the flat part of the "H", it just turns in the vise when I try and torque the receiver. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/frown.gif

Believe it or not, clamping on the edges of the "H" has proved to be the most stable, as in these pictures:

http://www.mindspring.com/~kmeans/screw_it.jpg

Yes, it looks funny - but it works!

That's why I commented to BBBBill if he could make a "wrench" with uprights that sat perpendicular to the vise jaws (instead of parallel like this "H"), I'd buy one in a second!!

Either way, I've found that holding the barrel and turning the receiver gives me far better results than vice (vise? http://www.fnfal.com/forums/wink.gif sorry) versa.

Note to FLC - that punch mark method it just too kewl!!!! I gotta try that on this receiver. Thanks!!



[This message has been edited by Steel Rat (edited December 15, 2000).]

[Clark]

I like seeing articlated arm lamps mounted on workbenchs. I have lots of them. I am now a 49 year dim eyed old fart.

I tightened the barrel, and it needed some more off. I told the guy with the lathe, take off .010" from the shoulder. Then I put grease on the threads. When I tighterned it, it went over the top. I thought I was screwed. Then I read the gunplumer and he said to hit it with a hammer. I did. Now it all fits.

[Wadman]

The lathe guy took off ten thousandths? Wow, that's a lot. The thing I like about GP's instruction booklet is that he also gives options for when you've screwed up.

[W.E.G.]

btt

[law4fun]

BTT