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View Full Version : what was ORIGIONAL G1 finish?


stand watie
September 15, 2001, 11:01
received my handpicked G1 kit yesterday, when i got back from out of state.
while my finish is really cruddy, it appears to be BLUED in areas not open to wear/sunlight/etc.. could that be true?
for dixie,sw :D :confused:

EMDII
September 15, 2001, 11:19
The pics all indicate an apparent parkerized finish. None of the kits I've handled at Tapco had ANY enamelling a la contract FAL or L1A1. The StG-58 is similar, a dark parkerizing. Finish wear and cosmolene immersion tend to make it look greenish-blue, or brownish-blue.

FWIW- Parkerizing is my bet. Maybe Roland or other RKI who served in BGS or Bundeswehr can fill in the blank.

stand watie
September 15, 2001, 11:48
i was issued a G1 when i was an american liason officer to the BRD Land reserve army units (1970-71) & it was parked nearly black.
my G1 kit looks like commercial blued like a sporting rifle/shotgun, once i scrubbed the crud off.
who knows what the turks may have done over all those years??????
nonetheless, i'm pleased w/my re-cycled Tapco hp & can hardly wait to order a custom numbered upper and getting my DJV-issue REPLICA going!
for dixie, sw :confused: :) :)

EMDII
September 15, 2001, 12:49
Very good post DeanD. Especially the first-hand contact w/ the guys overseas.

Thanks

espeholt@hushmail.com
September 15, 2001, 12:56
I have an as new G1. It's painted black.
See pictures: www.espeholt.subnet.dk (http://www.espeholt.subnet.dk)
I would wish I could sell it to USA but I don't think BATF would like it.
Claus :eek:

LVACGAR
September 15, 2001, 17:07
Claus- very nice G1! Interesting that it has a type II receiver and plastic PG. It is a damned shame we could not buy it here.

lbcadden
September 15, 2001, 18:46
Claus,

Any info on the scope mount? Have not seen that type.

I am new to FAL's and am getting started with a G1 kit.

EMDII
September 15, 2001, 19:13
Standard Belgian-design OIP mount using a Hensoldt 3.6x scope. Flexible rings. Fairly hard-to-find on this side of the pond.

WJ-Polish Guy
September 16, 2001, 07:34
You guys make me wonder sometimes :rolleyes:

Anybody bought "new" G1 lowers from Tapco? So what is the finish...? :p

Or maybe Belgians painted those lowers in purpose, so they do not match the rifles after replacement, and Jerry look funny with missmatched rifles :D

EMDII
September 16, 2001, 07:38
ALL the "new" spare lowers (TMH) I saw were PARKED.

WJ-Polish Guy
September 16, 2001, 07:52
Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>ALL the "new" spare lowers (TMH) I saw were PARKED.</STRONG>

Thanx Ted for restoring my confidence in you! :)

All three lowers I saw were black painted over park...

LVACGAR
September 16, 2001, 09:41
The three NIW Tapco lowers I was sent appear to be paint over park.

EMDII
September 16, 2001, 10:54
I handled loose in bag (NIW) that were in an open crate. No SN, FN-spares, all park. Definitely NOT black paint.

I'm red/green color-blind, but I could swear the texture and finish was Park.

Odd. What did I see/handle?

Gaspipe
September 16, 2001, 11:25
I edited this after spending the day meticulously cleaning the G1 kits I received...

The three TAPCO new lowers I recieved are in fact painted with a matte black over park. The black paint is very nicely done, but there is an obviously greenish park showing at the site base dovetail and also a circular area the size of a dime below the recoil tube where the armorers suspended the lower while painting it.

I defer to those who have actually seen a genuine G1 to say whether they were painted or parked at the time of mnanufacture.

On the other hand, each of the G1 kits I got were most definitely parked (at some point in the *distant* past) and two did in fact show some evidence of black paint over park. One had a nearly new lower, that was a dark park (no paint), contrasting against the nearly bare metal of the selector lever and takedown lever (and the funky Ersatz furniture).

There were traces of black paint on two of the lowers and the receiver stubs, as well as the inside of the butt plate, but really none anywhere else that I could distinguish.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: Gaspipe ]

ricochet
September 16, 2001, 15:19
Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>I handled loose in bag (NIW) that were in an open crate. No SN, FN-spares, all park. Definitely NOT black paint.

I'm red/green color-blind, but I could swear the texture and finish was Park.

Odd. What did I see/handle?</STRONG>

Ted,
The new lower I received was a dark park, I would almost swear mine is a park then blued. Mine was not painted.
Then, 2 of my barrels were paint over park, 1 was just worn park. All 3 of my lowers were just worn grey park.
I had my gunsmith parkerize and then blue my parts, and they look exactly like my new TAPCO G1 lower (except the lettering colors). My new G1 lower was not in the wrap, it actually was pretty dinged and had wear thru the parkerizing in places (from shipping?), but I am not complaining. :D

espeholt@hushmail.com
September 17, 2001, 02:20
G1 Scope mount:
I got the scope + mount + a nice leather carrying case (with brushes, extra rubber eye pieces etc.) from an old German.
The German police used this type of scope + mount in the 60-ties.
The scope is marked: BGS (Bundes Grenz Schutz)
Claus :eek:

stand watie
September 17, 2001, 10:22
well, as NOBODY seems to be SURE what the origional finish was, i guess i'll fall back 10 & punt, i.e. park my kit to match the upper.

BTW, the G1s w/type2 receivers were rebuilt by the BRD Land forces depots(german local defense reserves), in Zwiebrucken for one place. haven't got the vagueist notion of where else the rifles were depot rebuilt, BTW.

THANKS for everyone trying to help!

BTW, does anybody have a WOOD handgrip, that they aren't going to use, for sale???? the plastic one leaves me COLD, with the very "strippedy" (french walnut?) buttstock i got in the kit from TAPCO.

for dixie,sw :confused: :confused: :) :)

Derby FALs
September 17, 2001, 22:48
Hey Stand. Dan @ VOW was selling some Ironwood seconds. The 3 piece sets are gone but he had some separate items. I don't know how it will match with the French Walnut though.

Stocks Post (http://www.l1a1.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=006395)

stand watie
September 18, 2001, 12:42
HI DERBY,
sent him an e-mail about purchasing a handgrip alone, but no response yet.
i assume he is too covered up w/orders to respond.
BTW, what do you think the metal finish is on the strippedy one, as you had a chance to look at it???
for dixie,sw ;) ;) ;)

ricochet
September 18, 2001, 20:41
Hello stand watie,
My guess as a concensus is that the finish varied. I would also guess that each order had it's own specs (merely a guess). My 3 kits varied much from the others, but they are what they are. My barrels also varied, but they also showed variations while no sign of refinishing. My numbers varied from almost zero to 97,000 so I believe they showed a wide spectrum.
BUT, I can verify that my NEW lowers were the same as what TED saw. I believe Ted and my eyes. We both saw new lowers with no paint. If you look, you will also see that some type 2 uppers were used (manufactured and designed after the rifles were designed), so spare parts were also specified and bought.
Mine were as new, yet painted for barrels, but none (zilch) on any lowers, so your answer seems to have no real absolute answer. As other FAL's, variances and standards changed. You nor I can build an origional rifle, but we can build one close to our individual rifles qualities.

usmc326
September 18, 2001, 21:48
From the time frame it's logical that the base finish was zinc phosphate, gray, parkerizing. Manganese phosphate
didn't even begin to be used until the
late 60's-early 70's, and it took awhile to become popular.
The second finish seems to vary, by whom & when, so I think that'll be a personal choice.

Stg 58
September 18, 2001, 23:04
Take a look at the pictures I borrowed from Gunthings website.Top looks to be black paint and the bottom grey phosphate. So I guess they are all correct. http://gunthings.com/FAL%20G1s.jpg

stand watie
September 19, 2001, 13:38
THANKS TO ALL for you opinions! (especial thanks to DerbyFALs)
like i said, it's gray park for my G1, as that is what "MINE" looked like in BRD in '70-71. wonder where MY rifle: 59395 is????????
gray park is probably as good a SWAG as any, and MATCHES my POLITICS!
for dixie,sw :D :D :D

EMDII
September 21, 2001, 11:03
Best I could do-

When the BGS took weapons of the German Federal Armed Forces [more uber], according to the delivery series letters were [hangt] to the series number [ange], renewed shank and pistol grasp if necessary


As the BGS weapons of the German Federal Armed Forces [ubernahm], according to the delivery series letters were [angehangt] to the series number, renewed shank and pistol grasp if necessary

angehangt- appended?

EMDII
September 21, 2001, 11:05
FWIW- ALL the German NATO-coded magazines I picked up at Tapco were parked.

We may never know for certain.

def90
May 05, 2010, 15:37
Digging up an old subject.. but is the consensus still on the G1 that seemingly anything goes as far as finish is concerned? Gray park, dark gray park, paint over park, blued???

Or has someone finally come up with some more info on this?

On my kit the handguards appear to have traces of paint over park and the rest of it (bipod, gas system and lower) all appears to be dark gray park only, no evidence of paint other than a very small patch on the hinge pin.

Thanks,
Chad

chrsdwns
May 21, 2010, 18:01
Original G1s were painted the same black paint color as the FN49 and the early G-Series.

This is based on original unrefinished G1 parts and original, unrefinished G1 Machine guns imported over the years

J. Armstrong
May 21, 2010, 18:48
My reading is that most if not all of the original production contract was parkerized only, but later replacement parts were paint over park. This would also seem logical in that the later replacement parts ( e.g. those NIB lowers ) were probably simply run through the same finish process that had become common in post G1 contract production.
After all, we see late production replacement barrels that are chromed, whereas the original run apparently was not.

I would also venture to say that rebuilt rifles ( whether at German or Turkish arsenals ), would most likely be "updated" to the later, more rust resistant paint over park.

My call: Early = park only. Late/rebuilt = paint over park.

LaConservationist
June 12, 2010, 13:08
Originally posted by ricochet
You nor I can build an origional rifle, but we can build one close to our individual rifles qualities.

Well I have to say THIS is the wisest thing I have read here in a LONG TIME! GREAT point ricochet!!!!

JerodWKappes
July 10, 2010, 21:12
Paint over park or correctly called " Stoving" is what left the FN factory on the G1 . What happened to them after , God only knows .

Womper
July 11, 2010, 13:35
This sure makes me miss Ted!

brunop
July 13, 2010, 03:13
I believe that EX1 has written here (somewhere) that he has handled blued G1s. Lee Carpentieri might be another source on this.

I might go look around and see if I can find this...