View Full Version : G1 Range Report---MAJOR problem (UPDATE)
April 07, 2002, 17:26
Ok, My G1 is my first build. It is a DSA kit on an Imbel with FSE H/T/S. Yesterday I was out at the farm shooting the rifle for only the second time. Previously I had only put one magazine through the rifle. The rifle was shooting fine for the first two magazines....Then on the third I insert a mag, chamber a round, pull the trigger and bang bang. A two-round burst. :confused: I know that wasn't supposed to happen so I try again. Three round burst- ok now I'm shaken up. I unloaded the rifle and took the bolt and carrier out. I pulled the trigger and the hammer went forward. While still holding the trigger all the way back I cock the hammer, it catches. Hmmm looks right to me. So I begin to let off the trigger...Click. I moved my finger a couple of millimeters forward on the trigger and the hammer released. This being my first build I am Greatly Perplexed. I am taking the firing group out untill you guys give me some advice. Any advice or similar instances will be appreciated. Thanks :confused:
[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bigger_is_Better ]
April 07, 2002, 17:44
Your hammer woudn't happen to be marked "M" would it? The "M" series was discontinued due to problems like you just described.
The current series is "M02."
If you don't have a M02 hammer, contact Harold Shinn. He will fix you up. firstname.lastname@example.org
April 07, 2002, 18:25
I just checked and it is an M02 Hammer. :confused: Any other ideas??
April 07, 2002, 18:31
Had one do the same thing. I found that the sear spring had one or two coils clipped off. Not by me, by the fine folks at Century.
So, the problem could be a weak or shortened sear spring.
April 07, 2002, 18:34
I'll try checking that against my Imbel lower I am getting ready to build. Thanks
April 07, 2002, 18:41
I don't know if this could be related, but I received a FSE Metric trigger set which had the wrong (or a defective) sear in it. The sear-pin hole in the middle was too large. This allows the sear to move around a lot, possibly causing this problem. I notice it before I ever fired it, so I don't know how it would act in use.
It's easy to tell if you have one of these sears, when the hammer is engaged, it is not held nearly as far back as it should be, and the trigger is touchy.
I still havn't heard back from the dealer on what the deal is with this sear, I just went ahead and replaced it with one that I knew was right.
Please let us know if this is the problem.
April 07, 2002, 21:52
Bigger is Better -
I've got the same problem now. Gun doubles about once every 60 rounds and the hammer will ride the bolt down a couple of times.
I replaced the sear spring and that did not solve the problem. However, now I'm going to check the pin hole in the sear after seeing the above post.
Harold at FSE is great to work with, so you may want to give him a call. He'll fix it if its a hammer/sear problem.
April 07, 2002, 22:36
If the sear hole is to large, and you have a metric FAL, you might have accidentally received an inch sear. The picture below shows a FALO, STG and L1A1 sear. Notice the difference in the hole size?
The L1A1 sear is larger.
There's a little bit more about the differences between the trigger groups here. (http://mail.guns.ru/~joan/fal.htm)
April 08, 2002, 00:34
My sear also has a M on it but no 02. Was the sear updated as well??
Mad Dog 7.62
April 08, 2002, 05:13
Just the hammer, as far as I know. Also, the sear is not supposed to be a perfect fit on the trigger pin...there is supposed to be a little play there.
April 08, 2002, 08:25
also look in the pic above and note the sear face angle. the malfunction you described is not fse's fault totally. i mean he makes the parts well enough and usually to spec.
this type of malfunction has been a problem since they (brits) decided to make an fn fal that is not full auto. in general the brits solved the problem by increasing engagement surfaces and putting a much stiffer sear spring in it. this is why you will almost never find a semi fn (that does not double,)with a target grade trigger. with all manufacturers of trigger components this can be an issue.
now are you still shaken up?
really, you just built a machine gun from 50 year old parts assembled without a very important part known as the saftey sear.
you cannot reasonably expect the unmodified full auto(formerly)parts(i mean the weak sear spring)to just snap together and work perfectly. can you? did you? if you can solve this problem then you have every right to build an fal.
if this problem is too much for you to handle then you cannot build an fal.
April 08, 2002, 08:34
I thought trolls were limited to flightsim forums.......
April 08, 2002, 18:55
yeah, that was a pretty f*&^%ed up statement there. what a monkey button :rolleyes:
don't worry man you didn't build a machine gun. just try new springs first,if the engagement surfaces are fine. the HTS are new not used old stuff, the springs are old and may need replacement. aleph_beth is being a jagoff to you for no reason. good question came to the right place to find the answer. ;)
April 09, 2002, 00:00
I would like to state that I am NOT worried about the legalities of the rifle. That is because I have a currently have a lower reciever and a bunch of Semi-Auto Parts laying around. Another thing is that I am working on fixing the problem...I just find it is easier to ask for help on here than to go the trial and error route. I have currently changed all parts out except the trigger itself. The hammer still releases but not as often. I will change the trigger tonight. And for the record I NEVER blamed FSE. Hell I realy like them.
April 10, 2002, 13:13
i'm sorry for taking that tone. if it wasn't for this group, i would have a lot of unanswered questions too. what i was trying to say(something i've said to myself 1,000 times). is that these are old , mixed, gun parts, from machine guns, chopped up, stirred and metered out in parts kits. the parts are machine gun parts. we try to make them into semiauto guns . in order to succeed we have to change a few things .
i humbly admit to drinking too much coffee that day.
April 10, 2002, 13:34
it helped my hammer follow problem to really smooth up the trigger ledge that contacts the rear of the sear. i used a dmt diamond (red is fine grade)hone to do the metal smoothing. it appears the ledge was hanging up on the sear just enough to cause a kind of bounce upon trigger release that also released the hammer. i used the same hone to recut the hammer engagement notch deeper.
and square the sear engagement face of the hammer notch with its new deeper vertex. i then refaced the sear to look like the angle of the inch sear in the picture. i also took the sear spring out of a commonwealth trigger/sear setup and replaced the metric spring with it. at this point in my work i didn't care (lots of trial and error) if the trigger had a heavier pull. all i wanted was a trigger that would work right every time, no matter who was behind the trigger.
April 11, 2002, 03:35
Apology accepted. Like I say this is my first working FAL. I have two others in process. I think the spring is the problem because on one end it looks like it has been cut or ground off. I won't be able to do much with it this week because I have to work a bunch of overtime. Hopefully I won't be working this weekend so I can work on it. As a side note the main thing I was worried about was a 7.62Nato KB next to my face.
April 11, 2002, 07:22
i know what you mean, i had a case head seperation using some israeli ammo that dried my eyeballs out. not to worry though, the fal vented almost everything into the mag well, blew it out like a balloon folded the floorplate in half.. heh,heh i never did get that mag to work right after that. didn't let that stop me. i just cleared the weapon checked the barrel for obstructions put in a mag of lake city ammo and kept shooting.
April 11, 2002, 08:29
Originally posted by Bigger_is_Better:
I think the spring is the problem because on one end it looks like it has been cut or ground off.</STRONG>
The replacement sear spring I got from DSA had both ends sanded flat. The spring that caused the doubling had one flat end and one end that had been obviously cut and NOT sanded flat. Helped a friend with his Century POS. The sear spring looked like a hardware store replacement, very cheap and very weak.
Get some springs from DSA, they are new and high quality, $2.00.
April 11, 2002, 12:53
B is B,
You can ship me your entire lower and include all parts that were in it as of the last time you went to the range.
I can identify and solve your problem within a day or two and get it returned to you via overnight shipping.
If it is some other reason than FSE parts - sear spring, etc. I will replace or repair as necessary and return to you no charge.
If I find that it is a defect of an FSE part, I will reimburse you the cost of your shipping to me.
E-mail me at email@example.com for details if this sounds good to you.
There are many experienced and helpful individuals who contribute to this board, but no one (including me) knows exactly what the problem is until they actually see the parts for themselves. Shipping your lower to me is the fastest, cheapest, and surest way of getting your G1 up and shooting safely. Please let me know.
I look forward to hearing from you.
April 11, 2002, 12:56
If you received the wrong FSE type sear from your dealer, I can ship you the correct replacement.
Please contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
April 11, 2002, 13:06
It is an FSE h/t/s that you are still having problems with? If so, e-mail me at email@example.com and I'll help you get your problem fixed.
April 11, 2002, 13:31
THAT is customer service... :) :) :)
April 12, 2002, 02:13
Sorry it has taken me so long to post again Harold. I've been working O/T till 1:00am. I'll e-mail you shortly.
April 24, 2002, 00:15
First Off, Harold of FSE fame IS GREAT!!
I recieved my lower back today. Harold replaced the sear which solved the problem (still have to range test it.) Since the sear was an FSE he also reimbersed me for shipping it to him. That was what we agreed on. Now for the above and beyond customer service. Harold also replaced my trigger return spring. Not because it was broken or causing a problem, but because he thought it was too heavy. He installed one that put the trigger at 5.5 to 6 pounds. :D And if that wasn't enough he also went to the expense of shipping it UPS Next Day Air back to me. :D NOW THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!! :cool:
Thanks ever so much,
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