Most undervalued binoculars

[lawdog]

Can anyone give me some guidance on a pair of undervalued quality binoculars?
They don't have to be particularly compact, but should be durable and have good clarity? I don't want a $50 chinese set, but I also don't want to spend more than $500.00

I bought a pair of Bausch & Lomb binos and am rather disappointed. The picture is relatively fuzzy. I should have known I was in for it whan I found Bushnell brochures in the packing materials with the Bausch & Lomb.

Help would be appreciated.

[EMDII]

USGI surplus M19

Can be had on eBay for cheap, refurbished. MilSpec, clear, reticule, carrying case. What's not to like?

[bigant]

Originally posted by lawdog
Can anyone give me some guidance on a pair of undervalued quality binoculars?
They don't have to be particularly compact, but should be durable and have good clarity? I don't want a $50 chinese set, but I also don't want to spend more than $500.00

I bought a pair of Bausch & Lomb binos and am rather disappointed. The picture is relatively fuzzy. I should have known I was in for it whan I found Bushnell brochures in the packing materials with the Bausch & Lomb.

Help would be appreciated.

What are you looking for? Compact, or something like 8x40 or 10x40 and what do you plan using them for?

Stiener has some compacts and the larger size's and Zeiss has some compacts and IMO they both are good companies to buy from due to the Glass....IOR might even be a good choice, but their CS is very shaddy!

Well I'll wait for your response on use and size and then I'll give you some models....

Ant

[lawdog]

7x50, 8x40 is minimum I am looking for. They can be compact as long as the magnification and reasonable clarity is present. I would prefer to not have an oversized set of binos. They will be used for hunting, spotting and hiking. They will get knocked around.

I did look at Ted's recommendation. I consider it to be a viable option. there weren't many sellers of the M19 at the time, but if I haven't bought a different pair by the time a good pair comes around, I will strongly be considering a pair.

I did notice the Steiner line up (safari, and others) and wondered about them. I was concerned that because the price was well below the military/marine models that the quality was greatly reduced. So, I was unsure about them.

A friend of mine has been raving about Fujinon.

[giancarlo]

Individual focus rubber armored Fujnon 7x50 are excellent binoculars but may be cumbersome.
Why not the Hensoldt Fero D-16 8x30?
they are excellent binocs and you can find them on e-bay at around 200$.

[brownknees]

Can you explain
"relatively fuzzy" a bit more?
There may be a problem, or ajustment to fix that wthout having to buy new ones.
The most common problems are.
Dirty or fingerprinted lenses. take a good look at all the surfaces you can see & clean them with lens cleaner & cloths from an optician.
Incorrect eye seperation setting. Try moving the "swivel" between the 2 optics & see if this helps. If you are being forced to look thru the edge of the optics with the side of your eye it will definately look fuzzy.
Is there an individual eyepiece ajustment on one side of the binos? If so is it set correctly?
These are all things you can do in 5 minutes to improve the optical quality.
Even a relatively inexpensive binocular should not be "fuzzy".
Bausch & Lomb/Bushnell, have areally good warranty program, they usually replace the unit with a brand new one at a token cost. Maybe if there is something "wrong" with them this is worth looking in to?

[fastprofessor]

I bought a pair of the steiner safari compact binocs from bigant to give to my brother in law. I was very impressed with them. They were pretty clear and bright and the price was very good.

I own a pair of Nikon Eagleview compact binocs and they are also pretty good. Bright, clear, and crisp view in a nice compact package. I've had them for a while so I don't remember exactly what I paid. Somewhere between $200-300 though at Cabela's. I'm sure better prices could be found with a little shopping.

When you find what you like, I'd suggest sending a PM to bigant for a price check. He's always treated me right on optics.

[Farmer from Hell]

The Steiners from WAC are still the best deal in binos IMHO.

http://www.whatacountry.com/aspcart/images/Steiner_binoc_810.jpg

Thread (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53128&highlight=steiner)

Thread for reticle (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53126&highlight=steiner)

FfH

[FA Gunner]

I use a pair of surplus Steiners, great rugged binos, didnt get them from WAC though. Check out the sample list from SWFA for all sorts of great deals on just about any type of binos out there.

http://www.samplelist.com/default.asp?prod_type=2&hide_sold=False

[Vorpal_weapon]

Fujinon military M-22 7x50 is a very high quality piece of glass - truly impressive resolution. Siginficantly better quality IMHO than say Steiner. The only down side for the average consumer is the laser filters which don't render true colors. Like all 7x50s - they're a little on the large size. The last ones I saw on eBay were $300 or so. I only sold mine after I picked up a LN set of Swarovski 7x50 SLs and some Docter/Jena EDF 7x40s - didn't really need three sets of comparable binoculars so I made a good deal on them to a friend. If you don't mind the size and the laser filters, I think they might be the one to beat for the title of most undervalued quality binoculars.

I also would also highly suggest you look at the some of the better brand binoculars - Kahles, Swarovski, etc. listed at http://www.samplelist.com/

This is a discounted listing by SFWA for trade-in and discontinued models - there are occasionally some very good deals.

[Randall]

+1 on the 8x40 being minimum. I'd go with Leupold's 8x42 Wind/Rivers are a great value for under $200. I've got a pair, their light weight, good light transfer, good glass, can look through them all day long without getting a head ache.
Randy

[brownknees]

Pentax, Swift, and Nikon make really high class optics for 200~300. I'd vote for them in either 8X40, or 8.5X44 (if a lot of really low light work isn't required)
Or 7X50 if it is.
Some time back I did a post on how the factory numbers translate into the real world. I'll see if I can find & post it again.
Yup, here it is.

Doing the math. Question: What do all the numbers on the box, or in an advert tell me about the optic I’m buying?

The main numbers will be something like 8X40, or 10X50. This tells you 2 things immediately, once you understand the numbering conventions used.
The first number (8 or 10) is the magnification provided by the scope. 8 means that an object will appear 8X bigger, or 8X closer as you prefer.
The second number is the diameter of the front (or objective) lens. This will control, among other things, the brightness of the lenses, and the field of view.
You can also calculate things from these two numbers using simple math, mostly add, divide & multiply.
If you divide the second number by the first (8/40 in our example) it will give you a number called the “Relative Light”. This will give you a number that represents how bright the scope should be, all other things being equal.
Lets do the math, based on our numbers above.
40/8 = 5
Or:
50/10 = 5
This says that the two different scopes will have the same brightness, but the bigger one will have more magnification. The cost here being it will be bigger, more expensive & heavier.
Lets try a different one. This time we’ll use a compact binocular as an example, a 10X20.
20/10 = 2
This tells us that the compact will give us the same magnification (10X), but the small front lens, which allows it to be small & light lets far less light thru, so it will look much dimmer. The difference can be marked down as 2/5, which equals the difference between the 2 systems. The compact is 0.4 times as bright as the big one.

If we do the opposite and multiply the numbers together, then we can calculate even more.
40X8 =320
10X50 = 500
8X20 = 160
These numbers will give what is called an “Optical Index” by comparing the answers we can get an idea of the size & weight of an optic without ever seeing it! The higher the number is, the bigger the optic will be. Again by dividing out the numbers & comparing the answers we have a reasonable idea of how much bigger one will be than the other.
500/320 = 1.5625
This means the 10X50 will be roughly 1-½ times bigger & heavier than the 8X40.
Or 320/160 = 0.5
In this case the compact 8X20 will be 0.5 or ½ the bulk & weight of the 8X40.

There are also specifications that have 3 numbers such as 3~9X40. These refer to zoom scopes where you can vary the magnification by turning a ring. The first number here is the Lowest power, the second, separated from the first by the “~” symbol is the highest and the third is again the diameter of the objective lens. With zoom optics you need to have a power setting of your choice before doing the math, but again it can be useful. For example: how much brighter is the zoom when set at 3 powers than when it is set at 9 powers?
Like this:
40/3 = 13.333
40/9 = 4.44
13.333/4.44 = 3.009.
The scope is 3 times brighter at 3X than at 9X!

Easy do the math twice, once for each power setting & then treat the results like two different scopes!

Bare in mind these have no relationship to the quality of the optic, they just allow us to play “what if” games without having to go & get a bunch of optics to do the comparisons.
Cool, No?

[gunplumber]

I think I paid around $115 several years ao for my steiner military marine.

they are small, and not as powerful as the larger ones like the commander, or the one with the rangefinder and illuminated compass. those Are nice if you are sitting in an AFV turret, but a pain to lug aaround .

[EMDII]

Kool indeed!

[Dakota FAL]

Cheap binoculars tend to have cheap optics with poor color resolution and imperfections in the lenses that create areas of less than perfect resolution, particularly near the edges of the field of view.

I have never gotten a bad set of optics from Nikon.

Their 7X50 Action EX binoculars use high index BAK 4 Prisims and multicoated optics. They are also nitogren filled, waterproof and rubber coated. On line you should be able to get a pair for around $150. Of course if you buy them in store, you can try them out and ensure the image is razor sharp across the entire field of view.

[redrum007]

Can't go wrong with the Fujnon 7x50 or the Hensoldt Fero D-16 8x30, I have a pair of hensoldt's and love them better than the Steiners. www.deutscheoptik.com has them and very good customer service.

[giancarlo]

Fero d-16 were adopted by Bundeswher in substitution of Steiner(named Fero D 12) which lasted very little in Bundeswher service.
When acquired fero d-16 were paid far above 600 USD.
They are of the Zeiss family being nowadays Zeiss the civilian trade mark of Hensoldt.

[calvinike]

Lawdog,

I will have to agree with brownknees. The Swift binoculars are very good. I bought a pair last year after reading the birdwatching sites. These people are anal about optics. I haven't been dissapointed at all and have have had great remarks from people I have lent them to. My price delivered was $269.00.

[brownknees]

Did you get the "Audobon" 8.5X44?
I had the (much) older 8X40 model & am thinking about adding a full size to my Nikon compacts.

[doubletap]

Originally posted by calvinike
Lawdog,

I will have to agree with brownknees. The Swift binoculars are very good. I bought a pair last year after reading the birdwatching sites. These people are anal about optics. I haven't been dissapointed at all and have have had great remarks from people I have lent them to. My price delivered was $269.00.

Absolutely check with the birding web pages for real world info on optics. They are the most intense users of optics outside of the astronomy folk. The Swift Audubon's are very good glass for the money, and being bird oriented tend to have some of the better colour transmission. Don't make the mistake of thinking magnification equals resolution, absolutely NOT the case.

[Para Driver]

I wouldn't recommend going over 8X.. because after you hike up some mountainside your breathing will bounce the image all over the place.. I'll go against the crowd and say my Ziess 8x30 are really good and portable..the rubber armor doesn't hurt either as they have been bounced around a bunch in their 20+ yaer lifetime. Binos are like wives, YMMV..

[Snakeshot]

Probably too low end for you, but...

...I needed a pair of beater binocs for the buttpack.
And I found a Bushnell Falcon 7X35 at a pawnshop near here, $25 out the door.

Awesome! I am impressed with the quality. Perfect for my needs and if they get destroyed, I can find more.

Don't overlook some of today's low end stuff, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[calvinike]

brownknees,

Yes they are the Audobon 8.5 x 44. That particular model may be discontinued but "Googling" Swift binoculars will get you a lot of shopping sites. I believe I got mine from one of the stores in NYC. (47th St. Photo?).

[Trumpet]

I'll tell you right now, that the Russian binos I got from Don Kakretz are FANTASTIC!

http://www.snipershide.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=006073;p=1#000 005

http://www.snipershide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=004211

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/RussianMilitaryBinoculars.asp

For the money, they can't be beat. In fact they do beat a LOT of other more expensive binos...

[Fn/form]

There's a binoc out there to meet your needs. Hiking isn't the same as sitting in a tree stand. Astronomy isn't the same as surveillance. What's your intended use?

If you have any intention of really using them, you'll find 7-8x good for most uses, with 16x+ desired when you need details. High-power works for license plate numbers, actual activity, target spotting, etc. Much as in photography, sometimes you WANT to be very close.

5mm exit pupil is about optimum for weight/carry/brightness considerations. With normal daytime, you can get away with a smaller exit pupil, smaller binoc. Somtimes you don't want full-size binocs in the way of your hunting. But there's a trade-off between day and dusk viewing. Also--and you seem to know this already--you get what you pay for.

I have found Pentax to be a great value, especially used. I use them for duty and recreation. I have four pairs of Pentax binocs--two each 7x50 and 20x60. I prefer waterproof and tripod adaptable models. Retractable eyecups are useful for eyeglass wearers like me, and my binocs feature hard retractable eyecups. I didn't pay more than $100 for any pair, some of them NIB.

The 7x50s are very sharp, clear, and handy, and allow more light than my pupils use anyway. Good for general purpose and dusk viewing. I've used them for nature/birding.

The 20x60s are great for stabilized viewing where you're seated, have some support, or have standing skill. They're plenty sharp, and I use them as spotting scopes and as a 2nd/detail pair for duty surveillance and special event security.


-josh

[rjroberts]

Originally posted by Vorpal_weapon
Fujinon military M-22 7x50 is a very high quality piece of glass - truly impressive resolution. Siginficantly better quality IMHO than say Steiner. The only down side for the average consumer is the laser filters which don't render true colors. Like all 7x50s - they're a little on the large size. The last ones I saw on eBay were $300 or so. I only sold mine after I picked up a LN set of Swarovski 7x50 SLs and some Docter/Jena EDF 7x40s - didn't really need three sets of comparable binoculars so I made a good deal on them to a friend. If you don't mind the size and the laser filters, I think they might be the one to beat for the title of most undervalued quality binoculars.

I also would also highly suggest you look at the some of the better brand binoculars - Kahles, Swarovski, etc. listed at http://www.samplelist.com/

This is a discounted listing by SFWA for trade-in and discontinued models - there are occasionally some very good deals.

I'll second that on the Fujinon.. I had a marine 7x50 with teh compass. Very nice and clear. Made to military specs (US Navy).

Also, Burris is good. I agree with the samplelist recommendation. You have to know what you want, and be fast; good stuff goes fast.

[fixit]

I found the refurbished Steiner line a best buy. I didn't care for the Military/Marine model but found the Predator model a good value at $169 at SWFA. Nothing else seemed to come close for the money. The Predator model only costs $20 more than the Military/Marine model and seems much brighter in low light conditions.

[klickitat]

I think I am the odd man out here. I really think that the best optics for the money is Nikon. bino's or scopes. If you get the opertunity to do a side by side comparison; dollar for dollar you can not beat Nikon with a stick. Just my 2 pennies guys.

[lawdog]

Ant:

PM sent.

[MrL1A1]

Good thread.
Hope to pick up a pair of those Fujinon M22's...sweet

[Sanders]

I just took delivery of one of the Steiner 8x30 binocs from What a Country. Even though the thread is 2 years old, the price was still $90 plus shipping.

For just over a bill, I got a great binocular that normally sells for much more. They sure won't win any beauty contests. The rear lens cap is missing, there is no strap, and the front lens caps don't stay on. But the glass is clear (except for a few specks of dust inside, which is why they were discounted). I got them to carry in the truck, so they aren't going to have an easy life.

[bnz42]

I inherited a pair of post-war Japanese made Empire 7x50 binoculars. I know they must have been very inexpensive but, they are still crystal clear and much better than newly manufactured budget models.

[Stg 58]

I have these 5 sets.

I would rate them in this order

EDF 7x40 mine has the tritium still in it. pretty cool
Romanian 7x40 beutifully clear!!! and inxpensive. get them for about 300
Fujinon M22 nice glass but the construction seems cheap
NVA 7x40 big/heavy /bright
Steiner m22 big and cool with the laser filter in front

For what you want i would get the Romainan. best for the buck

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