Belt fed?

[yorick]

I got all this .308 laying around on M60 links, and it got me thinking....Did anyone ever make a belt fed FAL varient? How hard would it be modify a kit?

Are there any good resources for seeing how a belt feed mechanism works? I'd like to take a stab making one myself with one of Harlans $99 kits. Plus, Hesse receivers are so cheap, I almost wouldn't mind wrecking a few if I could eventually get a working product...

[kev]

Don't think it ever has been done. Belt feed is a complicated mechanism that doesn't just bolt on to regular rifles. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be a major undertaking. If something could be engineered to replace the bolt/carrier/top cover, that would be neat, but I can't imagine how it would be done. You would need to retain the upper portion of the carrier to meet with the gas piston and mesh with the feedcam. Keep the lower portion of the carrier to do it's job on the bolt. Somewhere in between, you would need to make room for the belt. Just don't see that happening, especially with the bolt locking into the bottom of the receiver.

[FALPhil]

Yorick,

Too bad it ain't .223, man. Take a look at this: http://www.usit.com/ares/ .

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..Phil
Download free targets at
http://harringt.home.mindspring.com/targets.htm

[camoguy]

Yorick I don't think it has been done either but not impossable I suppose. The m16/ar15 had a belt fed variant,the g3 had a belt fed variant,the stoner 63 had alkinds of different feeding variants. I would suggest you look at how those weapons worked in their magazine variant and belt feed version. Belt feeding set ups are pretty complex and left to braver men than I to try to develop.It would definitly be would need to have a heavily mod. upper reciever.Are you a good machinist?You might have to look into different types of links like a non disinagrating(sp?)like a RPD type . Good luck just don't kill your self.

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[camoguy]

Hey Phil , went to that site and WILD! Boy check out that Fal with a 7 1/2" barrel...I wonder if they sell 120 grade sunscreen with asbestos to keep from getting deep fried.


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[FALPhil]

There was a belt-fed Stoner for sale a few years ago here in GA. Guy was asking $26,000. A little too rich for my blood.

Originally posted by camoguy:
...the stoner 63 had alkinds of different feeding variants.



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..Phil
Download free targets at
http://harringt.home.mindspring.com/targets.htm

[TNT ARmoury]

Gee, you know what the current market price for a transferable Stoner 63 is? About $30,000 to $40,000 depending on the version.

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TNT ARmoury
http://tntarmoury.homestead.com/TNT1.html

[camoguy]

Hey TNT ARMOURY maybe your next project should be a belt feed FAL set up. I bet that would turn some heads at the range. You know I am from your neck of the woods. I grew up down in Fountain.Live in Denver now, maybe we could get together and shoot our FALs.

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[jon coppenbarger]

I would think you could get the links threw a military surplus dealer as I know the army uses them. had three belts in the plastic feed boxes and cloth carriers that were turned in to me yesturday mourning that I had to turn in to security. they were 223 blanks belted. nice stuff the gi's leave laying around. but can you modify a ar15 to take these? sounds pretty neat. found thousands of links down range while hunting but never new therewere223 links till now. will have to keep a eye out for them. for what reason I don't know as I will most likely never own a belt fed m16.

[jon coppenbarger]

camoguy I live in security and will be going to the crossroads show this weekend . are you going. will be looking for another good fal or maybe a decent kit or receiver price. who knows? did not know untill tonight that their was a person in the springs doing kits. do you know what his wait time is and what services he provides. thank you jon

[TOMMYGUN]

Yorick--John Ceiner in Florida did an AR-15
belt conversion a few years ago. It was
featured in the Guns & Ammo 1987 annual.
He is still in business and still advertises
items in Shotgun News from time to time,
mostly silencers. He's a first rate machinist,I've seen some of his stuff at Knob
Creek. He might have the AR prints for sale.
They would be a good reference, and yes he
did it in semi auto.

[kev]

The Ares belt-fed upper has been in developement for a few years. I've been on their order list for over a year, along with thousands of others. May happen someday, may not. There is one prototype that was at Knob Creek last spring. Links are Minimi/M249 and available from New River Salvage. I've got 6-7000 laid back just in case(Robinson is working on a belt-fed for the M96, too).

Ciener did make a few dozen belt fed conversions 20 years ago, but no more. The lower was modified with a cut for link discharge, IIRC. Going price on the semi's is around $10,000. MG about $5000 more, and they were not known for reliability or durability. Neat collector, but not really a using gun.

[JCD]

I would really love to get a hold of that FN!!!! http://www.fnfal.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[TNT ARmoury]

Won't be going to the Crossroads Show, got to work...sniff, sniff!

A belt-fed FAL, man you are ambitious! If you have some duct tape, Bondo, and a Dremel tool, you can do anything!

I'm working on a belt-feed for my Robarm M96 'Stoner' copy. I have the Stoner 63 feed tray cover, and a commando barrel made. Still waiting on an original gas block and time to rebuild the internals.

The ARES and JAC models uses NATO-standard M27 5.56 links. These are the same used in the FN M249 SAW. The Stoner S63 links are slightly different size and about $0.25 each, whereas M27s are about $36.00/1000.


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TNT ARmoury
http://tntarmoury.homestead.com/TNT1.html

[Enquiring Minds]

WILD! Boy check out that Fal with a 7 1/2" barrel...I wonder if they sell 120 grade sunscreen with asbestos to keep from getting deep fried.
Really... looks like a case for handloading. Perhaps in CQB the flame-thrower effect IS valuable? http://www.fnfal.com/forums/biggrin.gif

A fellow FALster is building his own, click on: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/Forum3/HTML/001023.html

Anybody know if under NFA that's a $5 AOW or a $200 SBR?? I'm thinking if you need a FAL *that* short, then it's time to call FN and order the super-modern P90 SMG with compact 50-round mag.:
http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm

[camoguy]

No I am not going to Crossroads..if I went I would buy something and I am saving up for a different FAL project. But good luck at the show. As far smiths go for your FAL , I don't know if TNT ARmoury does that kind of work(I believe he has a full time job and does this stuff on the side)but email him and ask(couldn't hurt). I had my rifle barreled up here in Aurora at the Firingline gunsmith shop. They barreled and indexed it for me for $70 bucks I think they will barrel and head space for $100. It took acouple of days.

TnT ARmoury man how much did that m96 cost you? I was looking at getting one until they quoted me $2400. Ouch! Yorick got me thinking though but I just don't think it could be done without a whole new type of reciever or some way to relocate the gas piston rod to fit a feeding device....but then again I got roll of 100mph tape and a screwdriver.

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[TNT ARmoury]

I paid $1223 for mine through Second Amendment Gunshop. I have one of the first 50 made. I have $100 into a Stoner 63A left side feed cover. My commando barrel cost me $90 (custom made, 1 in 8, chrome-moly-copy of the Dutch barrel). Barrel extension was $29.95 from Robarm. A friend gave me a demil Stoner receiver section with the gas tube and flange. I'm working a deal for the Stoner LMG gas block for my barrel. Should have the belt-feed running in February. Got too many irons in the fire right now.

Jon,
Email me, or use the phone # from my website, about details on building your FAL kit.

[jon coppenbarger]

tntarmory sent you a e-mail. thank you jon

[kev]

>>>Anybody know if under NFA that's a $5 AOW or a $200 SBR?? <<<

Here's the way this works; short form:

If the gun/receiver has or has ever had a stock, it's an SBR $200 tax.

If the gun/receiver has never had a stock and is not a handgun(ie. not designed to be fired from one hand), it's an AOW $5 tax. Usually accomplished by adding a second grip to the forearm.

*NOTE* The $200 and $5 taxes are transfer taxes for items previously manufactured. You could make either an SBR or AOW by filing a form1, but the 'making' tax is $200 for either one.

The Ares CQB FAL in the pic would be an SBR.

[GregoryJ15]

Forget this .223 rot. You can convert a FAL .308 to linked feed using M60 parts and a new design reciever which reworks the feed ejector block areas and leaves the rest of the gun the same. Of course nobody makes them except a very good machinist one at a time.

PS wouldn't that rig look awesome on a heavy barrel with bi-pod

[This message has been edited by GregoryJ15 (edited January 07, 2001).]

[camoguy]

You would have to redesign the bolt also,what are you going to do with the gas piston rod? The aries system allows both the 223 magazine and a belt to work from it.So you will still need some sort of ejector. I think the MAG 240 mg might be a better feed set up than a m60 but I would need blue prints of both to compare. Oh well back to watching Dr. Who.

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[W.E.G.]

moved to GENERAL DISCUSSION