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View Full Version : Snakes... what kind are these


rcnpthfndr
April 15, 2006, 13:48
came across these guys this morning when i was trout fishing with my boy

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/rcnpthfndr/197c1d13.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/rcnpthfndr/0035af6d.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/rcnpthfndr/201b8038.jpg

i am new to PA, so i am not sure what kind they are

L1A1formeplz
April 15, 2006, 13:51
Eastern water snake. Not poisonous at all, well bacteria in its mouth can make you sick. Their teeth are like fish hooks so if you get bit, well it's gonna put a hurt on you to remove teeth. They usually will slither off if'n ya leave em alone. But like I said you mess with em and those fish hook teeth are gonna make ya cry like a little boy whos ice cream just fell on the dirt floor.

Windustsearch
April 15, 2006, 13:54
Northern water snake, harmless.

rcnpthfndr
April 15, 2006, 13:56
thanks, for the info. there were 6 total on the bridge and bank.

L1A1formeplz
April 15, 2006, 14:03
http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/jnjkapfer/northern_water_snake.htm

Good link to find out more info and I apologize for saying Eastern, they are oftem mistaken for their eastern friend the water moccasin.

fusalautoleger
April 15, 2006, 16:14
its a banded water snake ..there are bands on it

Windustsearch
April 15, 2006, 19:02
There are also bands on northern and southern watersnakes.

Andy the Aussie
April 15, 2006, 19:02
There is the difference between the US and here, something that "looks" like that here is generally very very poisonous...!!! Unless it is obviously a python here it is probably going to put a real hurt on you...:eek:

rcnpthfndr ......I generally see more snakes out trout fishing than I do at any other time in the bush.....makes it a "interesting" sport out here..... ;)

Andy :beer:

fusalautoleger
April 15, 2006, 20:37
andy the aussie every thing thats a snake is bad news where you live that would look like a king brown where you live..

rcnpthfndr
April 15, 2006, 20:45
Andy, but it still would be great to trout fish in australia

fusalautoleger
April 15, 2006, 20:49
there is another snake that most peaple dont think about and its the eastern hog nose snake ..its a rear fanged snake and it is a venomus snake ..it will rear up and flATING ITS NECK LIKE A COBRA ...IT HUNTS FROGS AND SUCH.oh and it likes to play dead and put off a fawl smell like in bad it got an up turned pointed nose

fusalautoleger
April 15, 2006, 21:02
i still dont like getting bit by any snake ..a black racer will still make you sick if bit by one ..so in my book if its a dog it will bite if it a snake it can make you sick .. so all snakes have some kind of toxin..and then theres over lap breeding ..i catch them and pick them up but i hate getting tagged by one just the multi rows of teath makes for an infectected wound..

Andy the Aussie
April 15, 2006, 21:07
If I saw one of these guys in the wild my first thought would be "Tiger Snake" never a pleasant experience...!!!

Trout fishing down here is pretty good (in the Tasmanian lakes it is spectacular). Where I go the country is very rough and the streams very narrow (fish are also on the small size). Always a feeling of accomplishment to come home with a bag of fish from there no doubt...!!!

I have had more bad things happen to me trout fishing (4x4 rollovers, snake issues, falls, storms, heat stroke etc etc) than I have had doing ANYTHING else....!!! I do still enjoy it...!!!

Windustsearch
April 15, 2006, 21:36
Does Australia have a native trout or are they introduced?

Andy the Aussie
April 15, 2006, 22:14
Originally posted by Windustsearch
Does Australia have a native trout or are they introduced? ....all introduced.....thanks to our outdoors loving ancestors...!!


While on the subject....here is a pic of my Godson Bill and some that e helped his dad catch a month or so ago in a stream up near where we (me, Bill and his dad) all grew (or is growing) up. I have not been fishing for a couple of years now and this pic, along with a few others, were sent to get me motivated.... ;)

His dad (and me for that matter) are very proud of him..... :biggrin:

Da Nerd
April 15, 2006, 22:21
What is that. bait?:p

jamesq
April 17, 2006, 18:03
Originally posted by fusalautoleger
there is another snake that most peaple dont think about and its the eastern hog nose snake ..its a rear fanged snake and it is a venomus snake ..it will rear up and flATING ITS NECK LIKE A COBRA ...IT HUNTS FROGS AND SUCH.oh and it likes to play dead and put off a fawl smell like in bad it got an up turned pointed nose

i almost stepped on one of these a couple of weeks ago. had no idea it was poisonous.

machinist
April 17, 2006, 18:29
Hog noses are not poisenous!

Da Nerd
April 17, 2006, 18:36
Eastern Hog-nosed Snake (Heterodon platirhinos)

Description: A thick-bodied, slow-moving snake with a flattened, upturned "nose." Color is variable some have dark spots and blotches on a yellow, orange, or brown background, but other specimens are solid black, brown, or olive with little or no visible pattern. Easily identified by defensive behavior (see below). Adult length: 20 to 40 inches.



Habitat and Habits: A snake of open, sandy woodlands - found in the wooded dunes of western Michigan. The upturned snout is used to burrow after toads, a favorite food. When threatened, hognose snakes puff up with air, flatten their necks and bodies, and hiss loudly. (This has led to local names like "puff adder" or "hissing viper.") If this act is unsuccessful, they will writhe about, excrete a foul smelling musk, and then turn over with mouth agape and lie still, as though dead. Despite this intimidating behavior, Hog-nosed snakes are harmless to humans.

Reproduction: Female Hog-nosed Snakes lay from 4 to over 50 eggs in early summer, usually in an underground burrow. The young snakes hatch out about 60 days later, and are usually grayish with black blotches. Adult coloration appears as they mature. The young spread their necks and hiss immediately upon hatching.

Range and Status: Though recorded from most of the Lower Peninsula and the southern tip of the Upper Peninsula, Hog-nosed Snakes are most common in the western and northern LP. Their numbers have declined in many places, in part due to persecution by humans who mistakenly believe they are dangerous.

Windustsearch
April 17, 2006, 20:36
Hogs are rear-fanged and have mildly toxic venom, they are completely harmless to anything but a toad.

Qbdss
April 18, 2006, 02:56
+1 What Machinist said.....

Windustsearch
April 18, 2006, 03:51
They aren't rear-fanged just for the hell of it. Here is a link for the experts on the board.

http://www.herpnet.net/bite/

machinist
April 18, 2006, 08:53
No grooved or hollow fangs, no venom ducts, probably a reaction to saliva or bacteria, sounds non-venimous to me. I've been bitten by all manner of things that made my arm swell up, including an old girlfriend. .. Somebody call Jeff Corwin.

DJL
April 18, 2006, 17:16
Hog-nose snakes rarely if ever bite. It will flatten it's head and strike at you but it will not open it's mouth. It does this mainly to intimidate would be preditors, when that doesn't work it will roll over and play dead. Caught a lot of them in North Texas when I was a kid. Both the western and eastern variations. Sadly they are kind of rare in these parts now, then again so are toads.

PowderDriver
April 18, 2006, 18:37
They look like the Blotched Water Snakes I caught as a kid. The young ones were very docile, and make good pets. I fed mine goldfish once a week from the pet store, where I met my wife, the manager.

Your pics look very similar to these:

http://www.bugsinthenews.com/blotched_water_snake%20042803.htm

Windustsearch
April 18, 2006, 21:56
Watch this thread grow.

http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4073

Many of these guys ARE herpetologists who keep up on the journals like Toxicon and others listing tests on amphibians and other prey. Some of them have been bitten by them. They don't just play herpetologist on TV. Others just have alot of reading under there belt and 30 years of field experience, like me. I have also kept them and watched them kill toads in minutes.

But you be the judge I guess.

fusalautoleger
April 22, 2006, 18:15
the kommado dragon has no venom per say but i still dont want to get bit by one ..septis and all other bad bacteriarea..black racers are a snake that has some saliva..ever punch a human in the mouth and sink your knuckle in to his teeth ever see the infection that will set in from human saliva..in snakes the saliva helps to brack down the food in some snakes they have an advanced protine that is a venom ..eastern hog nose snakes ..not western hog nose but eastern hog nose snakes according to the book snakes of the world was listed as being a mildly venoms snake and it a rear fanged type

fusalautoleger
April 22, 2006, 18:27
and the other way i was in form of its venom was when i was about ten years living in south jersey i cought one and i had a string tied to it and was one the road playing with it when a game warding came by and took it from me and he told that snake had some type of venom..

fusalautoleger
April 22, 2006, 18:37
andy those are what look some nice rain bows nice size ..i miss trout fishing i live in ohio and it not a real good place for that at least where i live its not .. im used to going to livingston manor ny ..and up that way .. rosco ny

Andy the Aussie
April 22, 2006, 18:40
Originally posted by fusalautoleger
andy those are what look some nice rain bows nice size ........one Brown among them (a first for that stream I believe). They are a good size when you consider that the water they come from is about 10 feet wide from bank to bank.

Andy:beer:

rcnpthfndr
April 23, 2006, 09:48
here's a brown from the creek in the back yard


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/rcnpthfndr/100_2627.jpg

garandguy10
April 23, 2006, 13:37
Very interesting,all these years and i thought hog nosed snakes where harmless.years ago i had a african rear fanged vine snake[not a boomslang]that was vey docile and never tried to bite me when i handled it.it was very interesting to throw a blue belly lizard in the cage and watch the snake go after it.it would bite the lizard and hang on, chewing it's rear fangs into the lizard.the lizard would stop breathing about 45 seconds to maybe a minute after the bite.gave me a lot of respect for the small skinny little snake.

Enquiring Minds
April 23, 2006, 20:24
Hogs are rear-fanged and have mildly toxic venom, they are completely harmless to anything but a toad.

Probably true, in general... then there are those rare souls who blow up like a balloon and go into anaphylactic shock from a single bee sting... even die without medical intervention, including injections of atropine or even epinephrine.

I say see a snake, SHOOT the snake, just to be sure. Ain't a one of 'em that's rare or endangered, and if'n he is, he shouldn't a been stickin' his tongue out at me. :devil: There's been whole vast areas cleared of snakes (hint to Aussies), with no apparent harm to the ecosystem. They're just leftover serpents from Biblical Times(tm), lol.

Andy the Aussie
April 23, 2006, 20:35
Originally posted by Enquiring Minds
[i]There's been whole vast areas cleared of snakes (hint to Aussies), with no apparent harm to the ecosystem. They're just leftover serpents from Biblical Times(tm), lol. .......funny thing is up north the cane toads are playing havoc on the snakes. Toads are poisonous as well so when the snake eats it they go tits up. To be honest I would prefer the snakes to the toads, at least the snakes are suppose to be here....!!! Too much uninhabited area here to clear out all the snakes....especially in the centre and north...!!

rcnpthfndr.....I have a pond in the yard here but for the life of me I can get the gold fish to take a lure...!!!! That is a bloody nice fish there especially as it comes from so close to home.....!! Round my parts Browns are much rarer (and harder to get on a hook) than the Rainbows. I use to fish a stream that was down water of a hatchery......best stocked place about (seems they released the extras into the water).....:bigangel: :bigangel:

Windustsearch
April 23, 2006, 20:58
There's been whole vast areas cleared of snakes (hint to Aussies), with no apparent harm to the ecosystem.

Where?

I know there are places in Europe where snakes have been almost extirpated or nearly so through habitat loss. Those are also places where the plague had its greatest effect. Europe never had alot of good sized rat-eating snakes to begin with, so to get rid of them was a big mistake.

Australia has more venomous snakes than they do non-venomous. A good number of those are dangerously venomous, yet snake bite is not a significant problem there, not even close, same as the US. 70% of the 1000 of bites per year in the US involve snake handling, though the actual percentage is much higher because bite victims will often lie about it to keep from looking stupid. Out of that 1000, about 8-10 wind up fatal, almost always from large rattlesnakes. Truly accidental bites happen but they are quite rare. Killing snakes for the most part is ignorantly trying to solve a non-problem, especially in the US where most of them are harmless. There are exceptions, like a yard full of copperheads and kids like Faltitude has.

The reason hogs are considered harmless is because biting is not part of their defense program, they don't bite. You can pick up a wild hog and it will just get really flat and hiss alot, launching mock strikes at you with a closed mouth. The way people get bit is through feeding responses by pets, or in some cases by purposely shoving fingers into the mouth in order to test the toxic ability of the snake.

Andy the Aussie
April 23, 2006, 21:45
Originally posted by Windustsearch
in some cases by purposely shoving fingers into the mouth in order to test the toxic ability of the snake. .....I would like to see someone do that HERE......:eek: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: A Tiger or Brown snake will always save you the trouble and give you a "free" bite should you so desire....even snakes considered "less lethal" such as the Red Belly Black snake will bite with little provocation, but some is required. Most will bite if they at all feel cornered. Most are bitten here in Australia trying to kill the snake. I have killed many without the use of a gun (and plenty with), but even when well equipped with a shovel or the like it has it's risks. Much here has been devoted to the development and distribution of antivenoms and there are very few hospitals that are not so equipped. This has greatly contributed to the low mortality rate here. It was only the 1970s that we were able to really deal with a Taipan bite with any real expectation of success (soe lived without treatment but they did pay a price).

As I have said before.....out bush if we are not in each others way then Mr Legless is safe to go about his business, around the house with kids and dogs etc he is in some strife. Where I grew up I don't believe there was ANY non venomous snake that was common to the area, plenty of the others though.

Andy:beer:

Windustsearch
April 23, 2006, 22:16
LOL as much as I am positive they would oblige, I don't think the toxic properties of those snakes need testing. Tigersnakes seem sluggish, but they sure have a knack for placing a bite when the time is right, brown snakes are just wildly quick bastards. There aren't too many of either in the US pet trade, a few Eastern Tigers are available once in awhile, but I have never seen a brown snake of any type for sale except for the closely related Collettes snakes. I have seen death adders which are quite venomous but not very big and not too aggressive. Papuan and mainland Taipans are for sale and in zoos once in awhile.

For anyone that wants to know, it takes 3 mg of tigersnake venom to kill an average tame ape, they can deliver up to 100 or more! That puts them at about 10 times the lethality of a big western diamondback rattlesnake and about 4 times as lethal as an Indian Cobra.

Andy the Aussie
April 23, 2006, 22:51
sluggish........except when they are chasing you....:eek: :eek:...... ask me how I know......:biggrin:

762 shooter
April 24, 2006, 00:20
Hognosed snakes ARE venomous. Rear fanged venomous snakes. Venom and venom glands are specialized saliva glands. :) Argue with me about it.