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Biskit1
October 02, 2001, 22:01
I had problems ejecting from my FAL, so I got a new recoil spring thinking that would solve the problem...it fixed it on one rifle, but the second still has a problem. It's like the bolt never is driven back to eject the brass.......maybe the gas piston has bent or had some problem? Any other ideas?

TIA,
Tom

skfullgun
October 02, 2001, 22:17
I'll be listening to the replies, Biskit. I built my G1 and I am having the same problem. Mine will eject with the magazine removed...go figure. I've polished, honed, tinkered, prayed, and cursed, and I can't figure it out. :confused:

Biskit1
October 02, 2001, 22:25
Didn't try that to see if the mag was dragging. Tried like 5 or 6 different mags to no avail.

skfullgun
October 02, 2001, 23:58
Well, I tried three mags, all of them resulted in the same failure to extract. Then I loaded a round an removed the mag. It worked about 9 times out of ten. I'm thinking that the drag on the mag is complicating a problem that exists elsewhere. Like I say, I'll be interested in the responses to your thread since we have a common problem.

Biskit1
October 03, 2001, 07:27
*BUMP*

W.E.G.
October 03, 2001, 07:39
We need more info.

Please describe exactly what can be observed during the firing cycle.

Does the bolt move back at all?

Is the case extracted at all?

We are clear on the difference between extraction and ejection I hope?

You do have the gas plug set to "A" I hope?

I sure hope this is NOT a Hesse receiver.

Biskit1
October 03, 2001, 10:06
We need more info.

Please describe exactly what can be observed during the firing cycle.

Does the bolt move back at all?

Is the case extracted at all?

We are clear on the difference between extraction and ejection I hope?

You do have the gas plug set to "A" I hope?

I sure hope this is NOT a Hesse receiver.

Okay, here's more info:
This is an Imbel receiver. It's tough to see EXACTLY what happens, but the bolt does move back during the cycle. The case is extracted from the chamber at least halfway, but it is not ejected and no new rounds are attempted to be fed from the magazine. As I was typing this, I was wondering if maybe the ejector block was wrong, but if that were the case, I should get a FTF on the next round while the brass is in the way. This (described above) happens about 90% of the time. The other 10%, the brass is actually ejected from the rifle, the new round is chambered, but the bolt and carrier do not travel all the way forward to put the rifle into battery. And no, I don't have the gas plug set to launch grenades! :D

kfranz
October 03, 2001, 12:07
Have you tried all the gas settings? Maybe need just a little more umph...

skfullgun
October 03, 2001, 12:52
OK...I know BISKIT and I are describing two different rifles, but mine does not extract the brass and the bolt travels backward only about 1/2 inch. Sometimes it takes a little force on the cocking handle to extract the brass, other times it is easy. Without a magazine it will eject case about 90% of the time. Thanks in advance for any and all assistance.

W.E.G.
October 03, 2001, 13:44
It can only be one of two things:

Not enough gas.
or
Too much friction.

For starters, take the piston out of the gas tube. Remove the spring. Remove the bolt and carrier from the receiver. Inspect the piston for concentricity, and inspect the movement of the piston for friction. Do this test WITHOUT the piston spring in place. The piston should move with little or no resistance throughout its normal range of movement.

Is the gas tube's transverse retaining pin in place?

Is the gas tube screwed ALL THE WAY into the gas block (it should not be)?

Check the bolt carrier for friction/binding. Does it contact the top cover? Will the rifle function normally when the top cover is removed?

Are there any bumps, kinks or ripples in the recoil spring tube?

Will the rifle cycle dummy rounds?

Check the gas port for obstruction. You might have to buy two or three drill bits to determine the size of your gas port. Don't enlarge the gas port (yet). Just use the drill rod as a means of measuring the diameter of the hole.

What is the source of this rifle?

Snakeshot
October 03, 2001, 14:36
You might also want to inspect your chamber and make sure it is not dirty/ sticky. If it is dirty, that expanded case will be reluctant to come out. Tiny bits of brass around the right feed ramp can be an indication of this.

skfullgun
October 03, 2001, 14:58
O.K. Gary.Jeter...I've done all those things and can't seem to isolate the problem. I apologize to BISKIT because he started this thread and I monopolized on it when I realized we had a common problem. I've been holding off telling you that the rifle is a G1, built by me, on a Hesse stainless receiver. I can see the smile on your face already and I swear I just heard you say, "I told you so..." :rolleyes:
The rifle went together with hardly a hitch, seems to cycle smoothly when cycled manually, functions with dummy rounds, shoots to point of aim, and fully ejects spent brass about 90% of the time when fired without a magazine in place. The gas tube is correctly installed (not all the way in the block), the gas tube pin is installed, and it has a new Tapco piston that moves freely rearward when the spring is removed.
When a magazine is in place, the bolt moves back about 1/2 inch upon firing, and the brass does not extract.
I pulled the piston out of a fully-functioning L1A1 on the last trip to the range. The L1A1 functioned fine with the TAPCO piston, and the G1 worked the same with the piston from the L1A1. I think I will swap the return/recoil spring on the next trip to see if that does the trick.
I'm sure you're still laughin'/grinnin' about the Hesse receiver. I'm smilin' myself. :D

kfranz
October 03, 2001, 15:59
My Hesse had a variety of troubles for the 1st two hundred or so rounds. Call it break in time or whatever, since then it works fine. Mine was also enough out of spec that it will not work properly with a functional bho, as it binds the mags.

bykerhd
October 03, 2001, 16:58
Had a similar problem with one I thought the gas piston was free enough on. Swapped pistons. Instant cure.
Guess I'll have to tweak that other piston a bit more. Hate to trash a new piston even if it isn't straight.Yet.

kotengu
October 03, 2001, 18:48
It may be the SIZE of the piston. If it's TAPCO there have been many issues with correct diameter - some too small, some too big. If it's too small you'll get gas blow-by and not have enough pressure to fully cycle the action. Working in some rifles and not others is explained by stacking of tolerances.

W.E.G.
October 03, 2001, 22:42
Originally posted by skfullen:
<STRONG>...I've been holding off telling you that the rifle is a G1, built by me, on a Hesse stainless receiver. I can see the smile on your face...</STRONG>

Pfftblllppt!!!

Man! Where are the paper towels. What a mess! All over the keyboard...

skfullgun
October 03, 2001, 22:58
I hope you messed the keyboard up because of it being a Hesse receiver and not because "I" built it. :D

Bullet
October 03, 2001, 22:58
I got a simular problem. When the rifle will cycle on gas setting four for the first mag. After it warms up, I can completely close the gas and it won't extract. The case is stuck in the camber. the bolt will come back about a half inch then I have to pry it back to pull out the stuck case.

I opened up the headspace, but after doing a complete search on headspacing, I don't think thats the problem.

I cleaned the camber with a twenty gauge wire barrel cleaner spun on a drill. Everything seems to check out. I have to test it out this weekend.

Biskit1
October 04, 2001, 07:28
Not enough gas.
or
Too much friction.

I went down this path yesterday....took a new, functional gas piston and a complete, functional lower.
For starters, take the piston out of the gas tube. Remove the spring. Remove the bolt and carrier from the receiver. Inspect the piston for concentricity, and inspect
the movement of the piston for friction. Do this test WITHOUT the piston spring in place. The piston should move with little or no resistance throughout its normal range
of movement.

No problem here. All is functioning.


Is the gas tube's transverse retaining pin in place?


Yep

Is the gas tube screwed ALL THE WAY into the gas block (it should not be)?


Dunno. It's screwed in and the retaining pin is in place.


Check the bolt carrier for friction/binding. Does it contact the top cover? Will the rifle function normally when the top cover is removed?


I figured since the bolt and carrier ride smoothly without binding, it could be the recoil tube.

Are there any bumps, kinks or ripples in the recoil spring tube?

Nope. I used one of my Tapco unissued lowers to test this.

Will the rifle cycle dummy rounds?

Problem free.

Check the gas port for obstruction. You might have to buy two or three drill bits to determine the size of your gas port. Don't enlarge the gas port (yet). Just use the
drill rod as a means of measuring the diameter of the hole.

I did take the time to examine the action during the firing cycle. It appears it TRIES to open and doesn't get enough UMPH to get going. I'm going to take off the front site to look at that next

skfullgun
October 04, 2001, 14:09
Biskit,
Does it fire without a magazine inserted? I have isolated my problem and believe it to be the BHO device. I believe the Hesse receiver may be out of spec enough to cause a problem with binding on the bottom of the bolt when a mag is inserted. What brand of receiver is your rifle built on? Best of luck.

skfullgun
October 05, 2001, 15:21
Hey BISKIT...did you get that thang fixed?

Biskit1
October 05, 2001, 20:47
*** UPDATE ***

It works!!!

It was the gas hole in the barrel itself. There was the smallest bit of crud in there and it stopped the gas from flowing. A little bit of hand turning of a drill bit and we're back in action. Thanks for all the help!

Tom

skyclones
October 06, 2001, 08:57
I. remove arming pins
2. put hands over head
3. grab the two loops
4. pull down over face
p.s. Don't for get to sit up striaght

I couldn't help myself on this one
:) :) :)

skfullgun
October 07, 2001, 00:18
Huh? I've never "jumped" out of a perfectly good airplane! :confused:

W.E.G.
October 07, 2001, 11:33
Originally posted by Biskit1:
<STRONG>It works!!!</STRONG>


WHEEEEE-DOGGIE!!!