View Full Version : newbie problems - please help

sucking wind
March 30, 2002, 23:48
hello folks!!

i am an electrician, and fairly inclined mechanically. Ive sat back and read as much as i can possibly read about building a fal from this website, and other webpages

i have basically a new g1 fal - it has a new imbel receiver, a new argie barrel - and ive slowly replaced everything until it was ALL new (easier to sell to wife if done over a period of time)

well, i know a little bit about wood - so i went out and got some oak 1x8 and traced the outline of the imbel receiver - cut it out, and took a little more off of the radiuses where you dont want alot of pressure (ie the charging handle rails, the threaded part where the gas tube nut screws into etc)
slapped it together and bolted it to my 2500 pound work bench (57 chevy truck bed)
fit like a glove!

then i went and got a sears craftsman 27 mm open end wrench, and filed it to fit the barrel flats - filed it so close that it had to be pounded on with a hammer as suggested by a few posts

turned the new argie barrel into the receiver until it stopped hand tight, and it looked to me like it was 11 o clock as suggested - tried taking just a little off of the barrel face with a 50 grit sanding disk as suggested by crufflers build guide - it had park on it, and thought that it would be best if it didnt have park, so i turned the sanding disk with the receiver stub on it until all the park was gone.
then i put the barrel back in hand tight until it stopped at what looks like the 11 o clock position.

then i pounded the wrench onto the barrel flats - stood back - prayed - then went to crank on the wrench and wammo - the wrench came off, and rounded the flats a little on my beautiful NEW argie barrel :(

the wood receiver wrench looks like it held up like a charm - the 27 mm wrench doesnt look opened, and i installed the wrench correctly where it would develop the most torque. i also pulled the wrench straight back not angled.

i just messed my flats up, and im not happy about that!!!!

i had planned on timing the barrel with a protractor. my lower is attached to the receiver without the rear sight dovetail on it. with the protractor set across the top of the dovetail it is at 0 degrees top dead center. the rails of the receiver are also square.

at this point, i hammered the wrench back on crying and i backed the barrel back off - then reinstalled hand tight, and measured with the protractor sitting centered on top of the 2 sight ears - i got a reading of 34 degrees on the sight ears with the dovetail of the lower being at 0 degrees - is this too far out from what it should be before i start cranking on it?? does anyone know what the ideal degrees should be for this at hand tight before i go cranking on it again??

ive decided to get a set of lead barrel vice blocks, and some barrel rosin, and a receiver wrench to do this properly.
can anyone point me to the barrel rosin, and give me the ideal degrees for the barrel shaving?

thanks in advance
sucking wind

March 31, 2002, 00:27
Talking to Steve AKA refinish guy, he reports that he has never had to shave any bbl's with a properly made bbl vise and reveiver wrench. For diagrams go to www.gunthings.com (http://www.gunthings.com)
As for the resin go to Brownell's they have it for sale. You might also be able to get away with magneseium carbonate (gymnastic chalk) but why risk it?
PS with the Gunthings wrench & bbl vise they also report of taking off every and all receiver stubs that they came across without having to do ANY cutting. :eek:

March 31, 2002, 00:29
Hi SW,

There is no one correct number for barrel timing by hand. The important thing is to have between 100-150 ft-lbs of torque when bringing the front sight to top dead center.

To borrow an excellent analogy from Gunplumber:

There are 360 degrees in a circle and 12 hours on a clock, so 360 divided by 12 = 30 degrees. That means 11:00 would be exactly 30 degrees off of TDC. There is nothing automatically wrong with 34 degrees unless it requires too much torque to bring the front sight up.

I would say your problem lied more in the lack of correct tools rather than the 34 degrees.

If you get a form fitting receiver wrench you should be "golden". I don't think you need the lead blocks or the rosin, but they are available through Brownells http:///www.brownells.com I think.

I just barelled a L1A1 on a DSA receiver that hand timed exactly like yours. I used an aluminum receiver wrench and I chucked the barrel into my 6" bench vise. I used cardboard from a box as the vise liners and I put a cheater bar on the vise handle when tightening on the barrel flats. It was really tight coming up to 12:00, but worked OK. I could have gotten away with 30 degrees initial timing instead of the 33-34 I had. You could relieve your barrel shoulder a little if you want.



2 clicks low
March 31, 2002, 00:31
The first kit i put togather. I had the same problem.As you said pickup a barrel vice and a reciever wrench. Try here they have wrenchs and barrel clamp.Do a search for shoulder shaveing tool, they where selling them not to long ago.The barrel should time at about 11:30 or just where the notch on the barrel is just before the hole for the gas/tube/piston in the reciever.

March 31, 2002, 00:43
It's been my experience that there's quite a bit of leeway regarding barrel position from hand tightening. It really doesn't have to be all that exact,... anywhere between 10:30 and 11:00 should do fine. I like my barrels to be screwed on tight, so I look for about 10:30,.. some people like them to screw on a little farther before they contact the receiver. I use a barrel vise and a receiver wrench set up which allows me to "twist on it" pretty good and I've found that a barrel which hand times to 10:30 will tighten up with no problem,.. as a matter of fact, I've had to back them off a bit on occasion because I turned them past 12:00.

I've never tried the open end wrench method,.. but many have. If your barrel hand tightens to 11:00 you *should* be able to get it on properly.

My suggestion,... remove it,.. go to the hardware store and get some anti seize agent to put on the threads before you try to put it on again. It greatly reduces the torque necessary to get you barrel timed correctly,.. and if you ever decide to remove it,.. you're way ahead.

If all else fails,.. drop by my house with a pint of Stolichnaya, and I'll put it on for ya.

[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Templator ]

sam i am
March 31, 2002, 08:12
Just get a peice of 500MCM and wack it as hard as you could. :eek:
Probable won't work, but you will feel a lot better. :D
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sucking wind
March 31, 2002, 09:57
thanks everyone!!!
i will get a receiver wrench, and some vice blocks for the barrel and do it the right way!!
i got the wood receiver wrench idea from gunthings - it seems to have worked great so far - i fit it nice and snug on the right areas as suggested on there website, and there are no marks of slipping on the receiver so i think the wood worked great!

and by the way - i wanted to hit it with more than 500 mcm after it slipped!!!! I wanted to break out the cad weld and weld that bi*ch on there :) jk
i have a bloody scar across my knuckles from it!! I guess if i ever get it barreled, then i will have that to look back on :)

sucking wind

March 31, 2002, 11:16
Powdered rosin is available at any good sporting goods store- the stuff I buy has a picture of a baseball player on it.

You don't want to use the gymnasts chalk, it is to absorb sweat and keep the hands lightly lubricated, same as pool chalk.

Templator's recommendation of anti-seize is a good one.

Good luck with your project!