The Effect of 50 Mushrooms - SHTF

[411man]

Here is a thought for the deep thinkers; What would be the effect upon the World's Economy if Al Qaeda Obliterated the 50 Largest Cities in the US?

[411man]

That's about 100 Million less consumers and another 100 Million Unemployed 30 days hence!

[Temp]

I saw the title and I thought you were referring to the psilocybin type.

I was all ready to tell about the time that my old buddy, Nick, spent 2 days painting a giant portrait of Marty Feldman on the side of his doublewide.

[Kyrottimus]

....50 big cities? We talking they just gone or with applicable radioactive fallout?

With Fallout, we're all screwed.

Without, well rent the Postman, and you'll get a basic, crude idea.

[Sig220]

Like that is a possibility!!!

What are YOU smoking 411?

[Rawles]

I don't think that it is realistic to anticipate that AQ could lay their hands on 50 nuclear devices. Perhaps they might be able to construct 50 sub-critical devices (so called "dirty bombs.") IMO, worst case would be three or four true low-yield critical mass devices (either constructed by AQ or bought on the black market), and perhaps 20+ dirty bombs. That would fit AQ's trademark modus operandi. (Mutiple simultaneous attacks.)

In any case, such an attack would be a first class economy wrecker. With vast areas contaminanted, it would take decades or perhaps the better part of a century to regain the pre-attack GDP. (The main effect would be psychological--since most people will not want to enter a contaminated city.)

Be prepared to hunker down. Read my novel Patriots, or at least the archives of the first few weeks of SurvivalBlog (from August and September of Aught Five) for the particulars on how to set up a retreat and ride out this sort of long term disaster.

OBTW, a series of widespread biological warfare attacks could have nearly the same consequences.

[Kyrottimus]

Originally posted by Rawles
I don't think that it is realistic to anticipate that AQ could lay their hands on 50 nuclear devices. Perhaps they might be able to construct 50 sub-critical devices (so called "dirty bombs.") IMO, worst case would be three or four true low-yield critical mass devices (either constructed by AQ or bought on the black market), and perhaps 20+ dirty bombs. That would fit AQ's trademark modus operandi. (Mutiple simultaneous attacks.)

In any case, such an attack would be a first class economy wrecker. With vast areas contaminanted, it would take decades or perhaps the better part of a century to regain the pre-attack GDP. (The main effect would be psychological--since most people will not want to enter a contaminated city.)

Be prepared to hunker down. Read my novel Patriots, or at least the archives of the first few weeks of SurvivalBlog (from August and September of Aught Five) for the particulars on how to set up a retreat and ride out this sort of long term disaster.

OBTW, a series of widespread biological warfare attacks could have nearly the same consequences.

Yeah what Jim said. He knows his stuff man. I read the book.

Goldmine of info. Anyone who has these kind of questions need to read it before they post more questions of the like.

[Eclipse]

Recall a scifi novel back in the 1980's where a half dozen US cities went up after an attack by unknown terrorists. Event unbalanced the rest of the world, as there was a scramble to fill the void. America was uncertain how to respond, as there was no clear enemy who claimed responsibility.

Your 50 city scenario seems very unlikely, unless it's WWIII between the US and Russia or China.

[411man]

The CIA gave G W the serial numbers to (TWO) of the CRAZY EIGHTS back in 2001. Yes ALL (EIGHT) Weapons are in CONUS.

It was reported that (THREE) have been recovered.

[Sig220]

Originally posted by 411man
The CIA gave G W the serial numbers to (TWO) of the CRAZY EIGHTS back in 2001. Yes ALL (EIGHT) Weapons are in CONUS.

It was reported that (THREE) have been recovered.




Okay.......if we took your "bait", how does this figure in with your original post of 50 citys being hit.

[411man]

North Korea claims it possesses Nuclear Weapons.

North Korea has nuclear bombs, building more: official

WASHINGTON (AFP) Jun 09, 2005
North Korea has a stockpile of nuclear bombs and is building more such weapons, the country's vice foreign minister Kim Gye Gwan said in a US television interview released Wednesday.
"I should say that we have enough nuclear bombs to defend against a US attack," the North Korean official told ABC News when asked how many nuclear bombs it possessed.

Asked whether Pyongyang was building more nuclear bombs, Kim said: "Yes."

His open admission about North Korea's nuclear weapon ambitions further clouds efforts to bring a diplomatic resolution to the nuclear crisis gripping the Korean peninsula.

Washington believes North Korea possesses one or two crude bombs and may have reprocessed enough plutonium for half-a-dozen more, from spent fuel rods at its Yongbyon nuclear complex.

The Stalinist state also has an arsenal of missiles. It fired a long-range missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean in 1998.

Kim, North Korea's chief negotiator in six-party talks designed to wean the hardline communist state from its nuclear weapons program, would neither confirm or deny that North Korea had a missile capable of hitting the mainland United States.

He was also noncommital when asked about North Korea's ability to put a nuclear warhead on its long-range missiles.

"I want you to know that our scientists have the knowledge, comparable to other scientists around the world," he said. "You can take it as you like."

But Kim stressed that North Korea "don't have any intention at all of attacking the US."

The State Department had no comment about the report.

President George W. Bush said in an interview with Fox News Wednesday that international sanctions against North Korea remained an option.

"North Korea must understand ... that the United States is serious about working with four other countries to convince them to get rid of their weapons systems," he said.

Pyongyang has boasted publicly in the past of possessing a nuclear deterrent and has vowed never to dismantle its atomic arsenal unless the United States drops its "hostile" policy.

In February, it declared that it had developed nuclear weapons to protect itself against a US attack and would indefinitely boycott multilateral talks aimed at dismantling its atomic programs.

North Korea had attended three round of six-party talks with the United States, China, Japan, South Korea and Russia but refused to attend the fourth round scheduled in September last year, citing what it termed hostile US policy.

The official Korean Central News Agency, Pyongyang's mouthpiece, said Wednesday that new talks would take place only when the United States agrees to its demands.

"As for the resumption of the six-party talks, it entirely depends on the US response to the DPRK's (North Korea's) call for creating conditions and an environment for their resumption," a North Korean foreign ministry spokesman was quoted as saying.

The statement, which followed a rare meeting between US and North Korean officials in New York on Monday, punctured hopes raised by China for an early resumption of talks.

Beijing's ambassador to the United Nations, Wang Guangya, had indicated that North Korea had decided to attend a new round of talks soon, possibly within "the next few weeks".

Pyongyang's latest verbal attack came just days after senior US and North Korean diplomats met Monday for the second time in less than a month in New York.

The US State Department said North Korea had said at the meeting that it would return to the talks, although no date was mentioned.

On Wednesday, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in a written response to a question that the administration has "not heard confirmation from any source that North Korea has agreed to any date or timeframe for the resumption of six-party talks."

He added that no specific arrangements have been made at this point for the next round.

But the Pyongyang foreign ministry spokesman on Wednesday complained of receiving mixed signals from Washington.





North Korea threatens to attack olver US-S. Korean war games.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/North_Korean_Military_Ready_For_Action.html

North Korean Military Ready For Action

"The US should know that the projected saber-rattling will becloud the prospect of a peaceful solution to the nuclear issue and the six-party talks, and drive the inter-Korean relations to a more serious phase," the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of the Fatherland said.
by Staff Writers
Seoul (AFP) Mar 15, 2006
North Korea's military said Tuesday it was ready to take action against South Korea's joint war games with the United States scheduled for later this month. The North Korean People's Army (KPA) said that it would "never remain a passive onlooker" to what it called a US preemptive attack on the communist country.
The warning was issued by an unnamed spokesman for the KPA's mission in Panmunjom, a truce village in the inter-Korean border, according to the country's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).

"The KPA side is of the view that a preemptive attack is not monopoly of the US and the DPRK (North Korea), too, has the right to preempt an attack," the spokesman said, noting that North Korea and the US are still technically at war.

The United States has said its annual joint war games, which will begin on March 25, were aimed at deterring any North Korean military threat.

Pyongyang says the United States is using the drills to prepare an invasion of the isolated Stalinist state, which has been locked in a dispute with the outside world over its nuclear ambitions since October 2002.

The spokesman said North Korea's military would "follow with a high degree of vigilance the grave situation prevailing on the Korean Peninsula."

In an earlier statement, the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of the Fatherland, a North Korean agency handling affairs with South Korea, labeled the military drills a "criminal" act intended to prepare for a US invasion of North Korea.

Last week North Korea called off high-level talks with South Korea, saying the military exercises would also set back efforts to end the standoff over North Korea's nuclear weapons ambitions.

"The US should know that the projected saber-rattling will becloud the prospect of a peaceful solution to the nuclear issue and the six-party talks, and drive the inter-Korean relations to a more serious phase," the committee said.

The talks bringing together the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States have been stalled since November last year after North Korea denied US charges that it was counterfeiting dollars and demanded that Washington lift financial sanctions imposed on Pyongyang.

North Korea's relations with South Korea have been developing despite the nuclear standoff. However, the communist country frequently puts off meetings with its neighbor to protest joint exercises with the United States.


Source: Agence France-Presse
Related

[Da Nerd]

Lets see, 50 nukes coming our direction, mean 6000 nukes headed their direction.
WE WIN

[Sig220]

Once again 411........swampfox who ever you are just prove that you are full of hot air and no substance.

What are you alluding to now........that North Korea will try and drop bombs on the US? Attack us with missles??

Just so you are aware, the military exercises in South Korea WITH the US participating is ongoing. We have NOT been attacked now have we?


Go back in your cave and talk to your mirror as that is the only person who takes your drivel seriously.:eek:

['TUDE]

The effect of 50 mushrooms? Now we know the reason you started this thread.
Far out for sure man. Yeah, groovy shrooms man. Oh wait, Korea is attacking. No wait, IMI has been sold. Oh no, my Pink Floyd album is skipping. Yeah man, I dig it. :shades:

[Da Nerd]

Don't mess with my Portobello - pronounced [por-toh-BEHL-loh] mushrooms

[Da Nerd]

Oh wait, I am sorry, I thought this was the Gourmet recipe forum:D

[Deltaten]

50 "mushrooms"??

Well, my guess is that most of the Middle East, parts of Indonesia, N.Korea, populated China and ..what the hell! Venezuela would be smoking craters!
IF we're gonna "respond", might as well be All the Way! . WTF? May as well "do" Mexico City as well.!

Best,
Paul

[squid8286]

Originally posted by 411man
The CIA gave G W the serial numbers to (TWO) of the CRAZY EIGHTS back in 2001. Yes ALL (EIGHT) Weapons are in CONUS.

It was reported that (THREE) have been recovered.

By "Crazy Eights" I am assuming you mean eight stolen nuclear weapons. Where does your information come from to back up the above statement?

[411man]

Homeland Security/FBI briefings to select LEOs across the county. When you get the same story and math from more than one source from different parts of the country who do NOT know each other, Never talk to each other, NOR have every met, then its time to Listen.

I cannot help but notice that an EXTREMELY small number here and elsewhere on the WWW are willing to even pick-up their Telephone and call a Manufacturer, Distributer, Importer, etc. to check-out some Internet Rumor. I do however notice how it IRRATATES them so that I do just that.

Yet, I am suppose to accept the Un-Trained with NO Contacts, NO evidence, NO sources Pronouncements that I am just telling stories, taking SALES people's PITCHES, etc. when I post information.

I wish more would go an cultivate sources within the most inner Intelligence/ Counter-Terror community so you can the accuse me of engaging in a plot to increase Imodium AD/ Dramamine sales with McNell and Pfizer. If any of you do succeed in establishing such contacts you will most likely be glad if you first stock up on such products.

Do any of you watch 60 Minutes? Do any of your read the New York Times? Try the Foeign Press as they seem to Print more of the goings on that our Domestic Press does.

If you had been listening and reading then you would be familiar with Paul Williams and Michael Scheuer. The current Commissioner of the NY PD was on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago telling how (TWO) Terror attacks to Bomb New York had been stopped. Is He a Liar?

If someone LAUGHs-off such information well, go figure how willing that person is to confront Reality.

WOW, could we have just discovered a part of the reason America has such a broad based Drug Culture?

Let me see, ALL of America's enemies JUST spew HOT AIR and EMPTY THREATS. Is that the Story? The USS Cole NEVER took a hit, right?

[411man]

Squid8286, No one is sure about how many Tactical nukes Al Qaeda has. Numbers range from Paul Williams 20 Warheads and 68 Suitcase type down to maybe a Dozen or Dozen and a Half.

As to how many MS-13 and others have managed to secrete with in CONUS is the most pressing question.

[Sig220]

Oh well, once again you are just a ramblin man "swampy". There are some prescriptions that can let you focus a little better. Might want to get with your local MD and give that a whirl.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that before anything BIG happens you have an anxiety attack......forgive me that has already happened :wink:

So what IF they (whoever you think they are) have placed a high yeild nuke in your (Swampy's) neighborhood? Do you really think YOU can find it in time?? Will you instead make your escape?? Will you just evaporate in the blast??

Stay tuned to next week......same channel, same time.........for another.....

"Ooops I had a bad dream and crapped my pants pipedream by Swampy himself":devil: :devil:

Some things you can control, some things you can't.

Homeland Security/FBI briefings to select LEOs across the county. When you get the same story and math from more than one source from different parts of the country who do NOT know each other, Never talk to each other, NOR have every met, then its time to Listen.

What a cop out for a bunch of bull crap..........surely you can do better then that?? And what makes you so sure, other members here might have access to the same stuff you do.......just it is not interpretated in the crooked ways you always seem to??

[squid8286]

Originally posted by 411man
Homeland Security/FBI briefings to select LEOs across the county. When you get the same story and math from more than one source from different parts of the country who do NOT know each other, Never talk to each other, NOR have every met, then its time to Listen.

I cannot help but notice that an EXTREMELY small number here and elsewhere on the WWW are willing to even pick-up their Telephone and call a Manufacturer, Distributer, Importer, etc. to check-out some Internet Rumor. I do however notice how it IRRATATES them so that I do just that.

Yet, I am suppose to accept the Un-Trained with NO Contacts, NO evidence, NO sources Pronouncements that I am just telling stories, taking SALES people's PITCHES, etc. when I post information.

I wish more would go an cultivate sources within the most inner Intelligence/ Counter-Terror community so you can the accuse me of engaging in a plot to increase Imodium AD/ Dramamine sales with McNell and Pfizer. If any of you do succeed in establishing such contacts you will most likely be glad if you first stock up on such products.

Do any of you watch 60 Minutes? Do any of your read the New York Times? Try the Foeign Press as they seem to Print more of the goings on that our Domestic Press does.

If you had been listening and reading then you would be familiar with Paul Williams and Michael Scheuer. The current Commissioner of the NY PD was on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago telling how (TWO) Terror attacks to Bomb New York had been stopped. Is He a Liar?

If someone LAUGHs-off such information well, go figure how willing that person is to confront Reality.

WOW, could we have just discovered a part of the reason America has such a broad based Drug Culture?

Let me see, ALL of America's enemies JUST spew HOT AIR and EMPTY THREATS. Is that the Story? The USS Cole NEVER took a hit, right?

"Homeland Security/FBI Briefings" is kinda vague. What specific briefings are you referring to? And as for the rest of us being being "untrained", what sort of training/expertise do you have? I'm not saying that there is no possibility at all that terrorists have smuggled a nuclear weapon into this country, but without some kind of source for this info, you sound kinda like Jethro Bodine planning on becoming a "double nought spy".

[MTS]

I guess it won't hurt to have some fun with the topic, but there has been some pretty widespread concern about the whole loose nukes scenario.

Kind of like some of the worries some people had about airplanes flying into buildings before it happened for real. No point losing sleep about it, but I wouldn't write off the possibility, either.

[411man]

Sig220, here is the list of target cities to be attacked in "OPERATION AMERICAN HIROSHIMA". Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, Denver, Washington DC, New York, and Miami.
I hope you don't live near the center of any of these cities.

This information came from captured documents and a Lap Top computer. The Lap Top belong to Bin Laden's #2 man Zawahiri.

Go ahead, shoot you mouth off some more oh ignorant one.

[762 shooter]

The captured documents were found in a tactical wheel barrow. Beware of tactical wheel barrows! And Lap Tops. Geez! I have a Lap Top!!!

[Sig220]

Originally posted by 411man
Sig220, here is the list of target cities to be attacked in "OPERATION AMERICAN HIROSHIMA". Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, Denver, Washington DC, New York, and Miami.
I hope you don't live near the center of any of these cities.

This information came from captured documents and a Lap Top computer. The Lap Top belong to Bin Laden's #2 man Zawahiri.

Go ahead, shoot you mouth off some more oh ignorant one.

Hmm, you need to get out more oh lonely, pathetic one:biggrin:

You take info you can find on the net and stretch it.....the source of your information is in the business of selling books. The following is his quote....off the net...

[QUOTE]"RM: Seven teams?



PW: At least seven teams. according to information obtained from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other al Qaeda operatives, in at least seven metropolitan areas. These areas have been identified as New York , Miami , Houston , Las Vegas , Los Angeles , Chicago , and Washington DC . The attack will occur simultaneously at the seven sites.



RM: How do you know you can trust what Khalid Sheikh Mohammad said? In the past, he's given us bogus information, some of which led to orange alerts. Some say he and other Al-Qaeda operatives are waging a disinformation campaign meant to dull our senses.



PW: No, you can't trust Khalid Sheikh Mohammad but you can trust the information that was obtained from his laptop when he was arrested on March 1, 2003 . "[QUOTE]

RM is Ryan Mauro and PW is Paul Williams, btw.

How about another quote from the same article:

[QUOTE]"RM: I have trouble believing that teams required to maintain a nuclear weapon wouldn't be detected here in the US .



PW: There isn't just one team but, at least, seven. They are working within mosques and Islamic centers. In the US , a federal judge will not provide any FBI or law enforcement agent with a warrant to search a mosque of an Islam center for ANY reason since such places are listed as "houses of worship." "[QUOTE]

You want to play yourself off as some kind of cool "in the know" authority......when you are not. You just spend time searching the web for some info that fits your paranoria. I dismiss more briefing material from HS/FBI then you will ever find on the web. The bottom line is you are paranoid. A weak, scared paranoid person. There is help.....talk with your physician. :rolleyes:
BTW, here is the source for the above quotes...

http://www.worldthreats.com/al-qaeda_terrorism/Interview_with_Paul.htm

[Steve in SC]

Originally posted by 411man
Yet, I am suppose to accept the Un-Trained with NO Contacts, NO evidence, NO sources Pronouncements that I am just telling stories, taking SALES people's PITCHES, etc. when I post information.

You may want to check your fire. There are lots of military and LEO's on this board who actually know way more than you give credit. I would worry about China as they have missles that can reach the USA, North Korea doesn't. Iran has been a threat for many years, though their missle range is confined to SWA. (A few nukes on selected mid-east targets and Iran will be THE regional power) Yes, AQ and their backpack nukes are a threat, but like was said earlier, unless you know when/where it's going to detonate your dust. AQ's dirty bombs will create the desired panic and economic disaster they crave.

[Da Nerd]

Al Qaeda is bankrupting the USA with rumors and lies.
All they have to do is leave a lap top with "secret information" on it and let the USA spend a zillion dollars protecting against something that was never gonna happen.
How much are they paying you 411man to spread their rumors??:tongue:

[Da Nerd]

IF they had a-bombs in this country, they would use them rather than risk loosing them.

[411man]

Sig220, I woluld like to appologize for my outburst aimed at you personally.

I am aware of the sighted interview that you posted and I am glade that you did so.

However, I recieved my information from other sources both Public and Private.
The Public include internet sites, News papers (such as the NY TIMES), and even TV shows (such as 60 Minutes). The sighted interview was NOT one of them and in fact came a considerable time after the other sources I mentioned above made me aware.

Privately individuals in Law Enforcement ( Federal and Local), the Military, as well as HLS.

It is the cohesion and confirmation from these various sources which convince me of the validity of the information on Operation "AMERICAN HIROSHIMA" as well as other threats.

When all is said and done, my motivation for posting this or any other information is for the benefit of those who can make use of the information. Those who wish to ignore it may, as well as those who do not believe it.

I do my best to use all available means to obtain the most complete and accurate story on every subject I seek information on.

The more sources one can tap the greater the chance of getting a clear and complete picture.

Steve in SC, your post has much substance and truth as well as some sound advise.

Iran has had Three successful tests of a IRBM launched from a Merchant vessel to an optimum Altitude for a EMP attack where they exploded it. Thus they are a bonifide threat for such an attack once they are able to deploy a suitable warehead.

Al Qaeda has so called Suitecase weapons in CONUS. They may or may not have so called "DIRTY" bombs deployed in CONUS. As to any other nuclear type weapons or the number of "Suitecase" weapons at their disposal NO one knows for sure at present.

North Korea has Missiles able to reach Alaska and the Pacific Coast down to LA at least. They are working at pace to extend their attack radius to include the Midwest.

The GREATEST value to the average American of this information is as input into their individual planning to cope with the Economic, Financial, and Day to Day existance issues which would be brought on to large regions as a result of such attacks. You are correct in saying if one is at the center of these types of attacks survival is problematic at best. It is the collaterial effects of such attacks which represent the primary focus for survival planning.

It is safe to say that the Vast Majority of Americans do NOT believe Al Qaeda, Iran, nor North Korea are Viable near term threats. So it seems with those on most of the internet sites as well.

My objective is to inform and perhaps help any who see a need to prepare.

I have Never nor will I Ever claim I have ALL the information on ANY subject that I post on. In fact I have NOT nor will I Ever claim that I am the First or Only one to post given information as that is impossible for me to know.

[AGC]

Originally posted by 411man
Squid8286, No one is sure about how many Tactical nukes Al Qaeda has. Numbers range from Paul Williams 20 Warheads and 68 Suitcase type down to maybe a Dozen or Dozen and a Half.

As to how many MS-13 and others have managed to secrete with in CONUS is the most pressing question.


Wow.

A genuine dingbat.

They're getting rare these days. I hope this doesn't mean the EPA is going to move in and take over here to prevent the destruction of their habitat.

If al Qaeda, let alone MS-13, _had_ nukes, or even viable "dirty bombs" they would USE them.

The pay-off would be too great, and the risk of losing an extremely valuable resource far too great, to sit on them and hope they're not tracked down and captured/destroyed.

Add a couple more layers of aluminum foil to the headgear. Maybe it's time to move up to the "professional" heavy gauge stuff?

[411man]

Let me Clairify my reference to MS-13 and Nuclear Weapons.

There is NO indication nor evidence to suggest that MS-13 has played ANY other part than to facilitate the entry across the Mexican - US border of weapons and personel. NO evidence is know to suggest that MS-13 has had possession and control of Nuclear weapons of ANY type. What they have done is assist Al Qaeda in crossing the border with weapons and personel.

Sorry for the confusion.

It remains that NO one is sure how many Al Qaeda operatives and weapons as to number and type they (MS-13) have assisted in secreting within CONUS.

[English Mike]

Originally posted by 411man


It remains that NO one is sure how many Al Qaeda operatives and weapons as to number and type they (MS-13) have assisted in secreting within CONUS.

If AQ had managed to get a TND or "Dirty Bomb" into the US, then the subsequent explosion would have given the game away.
There is NO WAY that AQ would risk the loss of such a device by holding back on its use.
Keep taking the mushrooms.

[411man]

Of the Eight "Suitcase" type weapons known to be in CONUS, Three have been recovered and back in 2001 GW was given the serial numbers and dates of manufacture to Two of them.

[Sig220]

Originally posted by 411man
Of the Eight "Suitcase" type weapons known to be in CONUS, Three have been recovered and back in 2001 GW was given the serial numbers and dates of manufacture to Two of them.

This will probably never end:eek:

Okay 411.......where is your documentation of this??? Don't even try the confidential LE bullcrap........that turd won't fly!!

[tigerfans2]

Originally posted by 411man
Here is a thought for the deep thinkers; What would be the effect upon the World's Economy if Al Qaeda Obliterated the 50 Largest Cities in the US?

The end of Islam?

[411man]

Sig220,

What sources do you view as reputable ?

What are your credentials and upon what basis do you "...dismiss briefing material from HS/FBI..." ?

You have made it abundantly clear that you offer NO source that you would accept.

What is the point of me offering ANY since you will only reply as you have up until now?

[Sig220]

Originally posted by 411man
Sig220,

What sources do you view as reputable ?

What are your credentials and upon what basis do you "...dismiss briefing material from HS/FBI..." ?

You have made it abundantly clear that you offer NO source that you would accept.

What is the point of me offering ANY since you will only reply as you have up until now?

411,
You can show no proof of any material from a HS/FBI briefing. How I know that is MY secret!! Put it clearer, anything you say you got from a second hand briefing....I get first hand. That should answer some of your questions.

So to be brief, your information sources would have to be above reproach, or you are just wasting bandwidth.

To give you an example of the error of your ways.....you named some citys in America as targets....if this was true....and it is on web...why is it they don't always name the same citys??

You say in one post the number of nukes in CONUS under AQ control is unknown. Then you give a number....not factual information just your wag.

You posted,

Of the Eight "Suitcase" type weapons known to be in CONUS, Three have been recovered and back in 2001 GW was given the serial numbers and dates of manufacture to Two of them.

Now if three have been recovered out of this mythical 8, why would GW get the numbers and dates to only 2 of them??

BTW, how much does a "suitcase" weapon weigh and really how big is it??

[propwash]

ditto what sig220 sez... jeez man, I don't know about the '50 cities' in a shtf situation but I do know that I don't want to be anywhere near 911man:uhoh:

[STGThndr]

Faltitude writes: The effect of 50 mushrooms? Now we know the reason you started this thread.
Far out for sure man. Yeah, groovy shrooms man. Oh wait, Korea is attacking. No wait, IMI has been sold. Oh no, my Pink Floyd album is skipping. Yeah man, I dig it.

Wow, man, can you dig it? Do you get those heavy colors and trails? Ya know, its funny how they actually grow on bullshit. Yeah, man, stick in that Airplane tape.:bow:

[ftierson]

Originally posted by 411man
Here is a thought for the deep thinkers; What would be the effect upon the World's Economy if Al Qaeda Obliterated the 50 Largest Cities in the US?

And you think that answering this question requires any thought, let alone deep thought?

Gee, I wonder...

Might it have a bad effect?

Forrest

[mosbysmen]

hey y'all
lets try to keep this civil ,thanks
mm

[FAL]

Originally posted by Da Nerd
Don't mess with my Portobello - pronounced [por-toh-BEHL-loh] mushrooms Mmmmmmmmmm...mushrooms.......

[411man]

Sig220, it is your right to NOT accept or believe any person or source that you decide to.

If Homeland Security and FBI briefings are "...dismissed..." by you NO source I could offer would be any better. Not even the recent public claim by the New York city Police Commissioner that TWO bomb attacks had been stopped nor the claim by the president last month that THREE attacks within CONUS had been prevented would be acceptable sources either as neither of these two persons offered any proof acceptable to you.

Since you have reduced possible valid/acceptable sources to only two types ( ie your personal observation or experience) the entire Educational system and most of the Research establishment falls into the "...second hand briefing..." source type category (UNACCEPTABLE to you).

Every Public school, University, College, Think Tank, etc. relys upon the collection of information, Teaching, and deducing of conclusions from the study and accumulation of information offered by other sources or in conjuction with their own efforts as the basis of this nation's Educational system. ALL of that is to be dismissed as SECOND HAND if we are to apply you standard to establish validity.

How many persons are convicted of crimes in the US based upon HERSEY? Ooops, there goes our Judicial System !

Your request for details about the "so called" suitcase type nuclear weapons offers an excellent example of the plight your position creates to the spread of information. The only sources ANYONE could offer would ALL be SECOND HAND and Hersey even if it were to come from someone who helped develop them as that would only be Hersey. Needless to say the Internet is OFF Limits.

It so happens that one of my personal friends was involved in the testing and development of nuclear weapons back in the day. He also killed people and broke things using conventional explosives for UNCLE in Vietnam as well as afterward in the development of conventional explosives in the capacity mentioned above.

The position you take that the people I know are nothing but Hersey artists or story tellers is SIR without PROOF to support your claims against them. Thus if we are to be consistant about this issue of crediablility you must apply your same requirements to your claims as well.

The fact that you were NOT informed about the "CRAZY EIGHTS" means NOTHING.

As to the 12 original named target US cities (hence the speculation about 12 nuclear weapons) was reduced to eight cities upon further intel recieved. Originally Seattle was included for example.

If you recieved HS/FBI briefings, did they included how many Lap Top computers from Al Qaeda top level members the US has possession of? The answer is TWO. OH, that is of course just Hersey correct? After all nothing the DOD, White House, Homeland Sercurity, FBI, etc. says is crediable.


All I am stating is that I know What and Who I know and I have been convinced by the combined information presented of their accuracy.

I have gone to school with and known a former CIA director, CIA operative, Naval Inteligence (active and retired), and numerious SEALS, Green Berets, Rangers, as well as other special operations types both in the private sector and Uncle's employ. The FACT you were NOT there with me is of NO consequence to these afiliations.

[N8Gunnr]

4 Eleven Man 4 Eleven Man....They've Given You A Number....And Taken Away Your Name


Originally posted by 411man
Of the Eight "Suitcase" type weapons known to be in CONUS, Three have been recovered and back in 2001 GW was given the serial numbers and dates of manufacture to Two of them.


Be Careful What You Say, You'll Give Your Self Away....
Odds Are They Won't Live To See Tommorow



They'll Let The Wrong Words Slip....While Kissing Persuasive Lips
Odds Are They Won't Live To See Tommorow


4 Eleven Man What exactly is your source of confirmation that there are 8 Nukes in this Country? Elaborate, If you would.
What in the heck are
The CRAZY EIGHTS" ?


Damn, I cant Get John R and The Wolfman out of my head!

[Sig220]

411......man. You are beyond reach. You just want a forum to sound your speculative BS and guess what.........this aint it. Why not go over to frightened squirrels or whatever where your "expertise" is appreciated.

You cant answer any questions, because you are programmed. We don't want your signals scrambled!

I think my call on paranoid and scared fit well. I really hope you find treatment.

But just because you are so.........when I see you posting BS here.........I will call you on it!!:p

By the way.........the word is "hearsay". Most courts I have been in don't allow "hearsay" as evidence.

As for as briefings........why would it be relevant to know how many laptops we of high level AQ we possess?? Do we need to know how many we have blown up as well??? What a crock.

[owlcreekok]

You know it has got to be some pretty weak action when Bill and Vince don't waste time on it.

I think the two barristers are laughing at us more than quattro uno uno nino

I am shutting off the grinder. Time to go get some brisket.

Me So Stoopid is SO QRT.

:rolleyes:

[411man]

N8Gunnr, the name "CRAZY EIGHTS" is the nick name given to the 8 "so called" suitcase weapons in CONUS.

Yes, I am fully aware that the Russian type "suitcase" nuclear weapons are approximately the size of a Sea Chest/Trunk and weight a lot more than a piece of luggage. The US versions are some what smaller and lighter.

Sig220, you didn't get my pun on Heresy by spelling hearsay as Hersey.

[Da Nerd]

Originally posted by 411man
[B]

It so happens that one of my personal friends was involved in the testing and development of nuclear weapons back in the day. He also killed people and broke things using conventional explosives for UNCLE in Vietnam as well as afterward in the development of conventional explosives in the capacity mentioned above.

.

'back in the day'...You mean WWII.?
Damn old to also be a V N vet aint he??
I would be amazed that someone involved in the development of atom bombs would sink so low as to use ordinary explosives and risk capture in viet nam.





I have gone to school with and known a former CIA director, CIA operative, Naval Inteligence (active and retired), and numerious SEALS, Green Berets, Rangers, as well as other special operations types both in the private sector and Uncle's employ.

I went to school with Jerry VanDyke,, that dont make me a comedian
If asked would your former CIA director even know your name?
IF so tell us which one and I will write him a note.
Those folks you mention above, are not gonna tell you anything classified for fear risking loosing their clearance and getting a court martial.
Seals, Green Berets and Rangers are not let in on really secret stuff. Just operations they are going to conduct.

[thunderchicken]

Of the Eight "Suitcase" type weapons known to be in CONUS, Three have been recovered and back in 2001 GW was given the serial numbers and dates of manufacture to Two of them.

I see it playing out something like this in the super tripple tippy-toe secret briefing to the president.

SPOOK: "Mr. President we've recovered three of the missing nukes."

GW: "Alright give me the serial numbers of two of them"

SPOOK: "Excuse me, but with all due respect sir why would you want the serial numbers."

GW: "The serial numbers, dammit! I'm the president."

SPOOK: "uh, ok the they were, uh 8675309 and uh, 1234567, and ...."

GW: "STOP right there I only want the serial numbers of two of them! DAMMIT, I'm the president."

SPOOK: "Yes sir."

GW: "I'm not going to wear a speedo."

SPOOK: "No, sir"

GW: "I don't know about Cheney, don't know what he'll wear, whatever happened to Colin Powell? He out sick? .....

[olsarg]

Not to change the subject But there were lots of WW2 vets in the army in 65 and 66. Mostly senior NCOs and Officers. 25 years and more were pre war. Lot of indefinates Reuped, cashed in, and retired. We had a very experienced Military in those days. Navy and Marines too. Most of them don't tell what they did if it was classified it still is. No matter who tells them War Stories are still War Stories.

[iocane]

The senario is currently unlikely. If Iran gets to be a nucleur power, a dozen other countries will probably become nucleur powers to. In the cold war if a nuke went off here, the soviet Union knew they were next. If theres dozens of nucleur powers, well keeping any crazy group from getting them becomes much harder. Someone might think they could get away with it. Doesn't matter that a stupid idea, it just matters if someone with nukes actually thinks that stupid idea.

Anyway, if 50 major cities go up I expect a lot of regional panicking. People would be scrambling to get out of the cities left. Other world powers would suddenly be wanting a bigger peice of the pie. If America launches a full scale attack back against every possible target, well Russia has more nukes then us. So most likely a few hundred nukes or more would get used to squash smaller countries and scare off the bigger ones. Maybe nuke some major ports of China and Russia so their not in a position to take advantage of the situation. Iran would get turned into glowing embers to scares others back. Nukes would be distributed to forces in the field and they would be authorized to use them if needed.

[411man]

I posted this thread as a means of begining a serious look at what even 5 key large US cities taking a 10 Kiloton nuke hit might do and for the next 30-180 days to the National as well as local economy. With "JUST IN TIME" having long ago taken over, there are NO stocked Warehouses piled high with replacement parts, food, circuit boards, etc. upon which our day to day economy is so very dependent. What stocks exist would quickly disappear.

Some may not be listening to the fact that Rita and Katrina's effects are not over yet. Now think what losing Chicago, LA, NY, Miami, and Houston would do to the Petro-Chemical Ind., Food and other Imports, not to mention the drain of man power and financial resources to address the aftermath in the attacked areas.

It is plain to see that almost every corner of America would feel effects from such a series of events.

Once one begins to contemplate the many effects on not just the local areas around the targeted cities but the vast draw on resources to deal with the casualties, damage, and loss of economic activity on the scale such massive destruction would bring it begins to stagger the imagination.

Now add to those considerations the loss and impact upon the contributions from those destroyed areas to the Nation's economy as a whole and it becomes apparent that many Americans not directly hit would none the less suffer from the collateral effects.

[BRONZ]

50 cities uh which 50 cities. :devil:

[ftierson]

Originally posted by 411man
Sig220, here is the list of target cities to be attacked in "OPERATION AMERICAN HIROSHIMA". Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, Denver, Washington DC, New York, and Miami.


Well, these were mentioned earlier...

And I know what you're thinking, BRONZ...

The thought occurred to me too...(:devil:, also)

:)

Forrest

[ER]

hey 411dude...I have a "friend" who knows who you really are...check six man, check six.


FWIW, you better get back to asweb.nuts asap.....they are really pissed that their village idiot is AWOL

ps...I ain`t kidding about the "friend" ;)

[Da Nerd]

"Foiled Plots"....I would not put it past the government to say "Look I foiled 5 plots this year, elect me again as I am best at protecting you"...
Does that sound resonsable??

[English Mike]

" ......the recent public claim by the New York city Police Commissioner that TWO bomb attacks had been stopped nor the claim by the president last month that THREE attacks within CONUS had been prevented......."

No mention of radiological materials or TND's though...........


Those "suitcase nukes" must be past their "sell by date" by now.

[jerrymrc]

Me thinks "411man" stayed in a Holiday inn one night.:)

[Da Nerd]

Originally posted by jerrymrc
Me thinks "411man" stayed in a Holiday inn one night.:)

One night TOO many...:biggrin: :whiskey: :beer: :biggrin:

[411man]

One thing is for sure; WHEN Al Qaeda pops a Nuke or Two on any significant American city, we will all be far to concerned about other issues to continue the Frivolous line of thought above.

[jerrymrc]

Originally posted by 411man
One thing is for sure; WHEN Al Qaeda pops a Nuke or Two on any significant American city, we will all be far to concerned about other issues to continue the Frivolous line of thought above.

It needs more cowbell. You can never have enough cowbell.... or tinfoil. :rolleyes:

[Temp]

Originally posted by 411man
One thing is for sure; WHEN Al Qaeda pops a Nuke or Two on any significant American city, we will all be far to concerned about other issues to continue the Frivolous line of thought above.

,... wonder if they'll give us the day off work if that happens?

[thunderchicken]

Originally posted by 411man
One thing is for sure; WHEN Al Qaeda pops a Nuke or Two on any significant American city, we will all be far to concerned about other issues to continue the Frivolous line of thought above.

Yeah, but if they just Pop nukes on insignificant American cities, I, for one, am continuing with the frivolity.

[jerrymrc]

Originally posted by 411man
One thing is for sure; WHEN Al Qaeda pops a Nuke or Two on any significant American city, we will all be far to concerned about other issues to continue the Frivolous line of thought above.

So now on to the reality of your post. Just what/how are you/me going to do anything about it? Think about what you just said. So what are OUR options for preventing this?

1. go outside and shoot it down with your FAL.

2. kill anyone that remotely looks like a terrorist (that will take care of the homeless population since half of them look like Charlie Manson)

3. dig up the old 1955 plans for that nuke shelter and build one in your back yard

4. ask you after you have received the phone call from all your SF/Ranger/CIA/Seal/ATF buddies that a nuke will be detonated in 5 min to post it here so we can kiss our ass goodbye.

I'm still thinking your meds need to be changed, or just add more cowbell. :rolleyes:

[rcnpthfndr]

while unlikely about AQ getting ahold of 50 nukes. i have another scenario. just based on my experience with some of those shit heads in Tal Afar and Rawah over the last year. given their ability to dig in remote detonated IED's containing 5x 152mm HE artillery shells undetected, and their use of VBIED's. we even found a suburban with an anti-ship mine in the back that was to be used as a VBIED against us.

so lets say they dont use nukes, but selectively place IED's along major traffic routes and use VBIED's on major bridges and in city centers. then at a predesignated time all across the US detonate them say during rush hour. i think this would have a more dramatic effect on the U.S. populace. probably crippling it more than the nukes would. this scenario fits AQ MO alot better than nukes. an IED or VBIED is an emotional event, regardless how many times you've been through it.

[rochte]

I keep waiting for 411man to tell us about his awesome Speshul Weaponz MP5 that he's gonna use when the nukes are detonated.... Saving the mall-walkers from impending chaos, ya know... :rofl:

[Da Nerd]

He is too busy impressing the folks at Frugal Squirrels with his wonderful knowledge and inside info.

[Powderfinger]

Originally posted by rcnpthfndr
while unlikely about AQ getting ahold of 50 nukes. i have another scenario. just based on my experience with some of those shit heads in Tal Afar and Rawah over the last year. given their ability to dig in remote detonated IED's containing 5x 152mm HE artillery shells undetected, and their use of VBIED's. we even found a suburban with an anti-ship mine in the back that was to be used as a VBIED against us.

so lets say they dont use nukes, but selectively place IED's along major traffic routes and use VBIED's on major bridges and in city centers. then at a predesignated time all across the US detonate them say during rush hour. i think this would have a more dramatic effect on the U.S. populace. probably crippling it more than the nukes would. this scenario fits AQ MO alot better than nukes. an IED or VBIED is an emotional event, regardless how many times you've been through it.

Please define VBIED.

[ftierson]

Originally posted by Powderfinger
Please define VBIED.

VBIED = very big improvised explosive device?

I'm just guessing here...

:)

Forrest

(or RMFIED = Real MF IED... :))

[Powderfinger]

Originally posted by ftierson


VBIED = very big improvised explosive device?

I'm just guessing here...

:)

Forrest

(or RMFIED = Real MF IED... :))

That was my guess but I thought maybe not.

[rcnpthfndr]

Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device

[ftierson]

Originally posted by rcnpthfndr
Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device

In other words, very big...:)

Thanks for the clarification, rcnpthfndr...

Forrest

[olsarg]

Sort of like building a 1/4ton trailer into a portable shaped charge to park on a bridge and blow a span. Or park in front of a federal building or under a high rise and blow the beams. Where have I heard of these? Nah never happen.

[English Mike]

ANFO is both fun & fearsome. It can (allegedly) be used to produce shaped charges & they do (allegedly) work as advertised.
Nearly killed myself as a "youf" whilst experimenting.

Far more likely than a TND

[411man]

jerrymrc, I was thinking more along the lines of preparations to deal with interuptions in supplies of day to day necessities, interuption of financial transactions, limitations on access to deposits, etc.

rochte, under the circimstances of knowing that a Terrorist attack was going on and being able to deploy with HEAVY gear I wouldn't pick a pistol calibre to use.

You bring up yet another viable threat type of a terror attack already in use, rcnpthfndr ( VBIED). Such attacks would prove exceptionally effective in CONUS to spread Terror among Joe and Jane citizen as well as disruption of day to day life and infrastructure. Such attacks are not difficult to plan nor emplement. The supplies and equipment needed are available with in CONUS. Several of thes e type attacks over a Large geographic area in a short space of time would cause MUCH disruption and be Very difficult to counter, at least at first.

Who among America's population has made any preparations to deal with the threat of being attacked at their Bank, Gas Station, Food Market, Shopping Center, etc. ?

[ftierson]

Originally posted by 411man
jerrymrc, I was thinking more along the lines of preparations to deal with interuptions in supplies of day to day necessities, interuption of financial transactions, limitations on access to deposits, etc.

rochte, under the circimstances of knowing that a Terrorist attack was going on and being able to deploy with HEAVY gear I wouldn't pick a pistol calibre to use.

You bring up yet another viable threat type of a terror attack already in use, rcnpthfndr ( VBIED). Such attacks would prove exceptionally effective in CONUS to spread Terror among Joe and Jane citizen as well as disruption of day to day life and infrastructure. Such attacks are not difficult to plan nor emplement. The supplies and equipment needed are available with in CONUS. Several of thes e type attacks over a Large geographic area in a short space of time would cause MUCH disruption and be Very difficult to counter, at least at first.

Who among America's population has made any preparations to deal with the threat of being attacked at their Bank, Gas Station, Food Market, Shopping Center, etc. ?

Many of us have, and we've been doing it for longer than you've been alive...

I don't mean to be too harsh here, 411man, but just because you thought something up this morning or read it on a website a few hours ago doesn't mean that you've just discovered something that no one has ever thought of before. It just means that you've just discovered it...

Much of your problem with acceptance here has to do with the head cheerleader aspect of your posts, acting like you're the organizer of something or another and you expect everyone to play along, including many with much more experience in all this than you...

And they have these things that are usually rectangular in shape that are full of sheets of paper with writing on them called books... They can be quite helpful in providing information before you post something just wrong and wait for your readers to correct your errors for you. Try a couple...

Again, please take these as friendly suggestions that will help cut down the negative reaction that you provoke in many readers...

And mellow out a little. These ammo scare threads are producing a self-generated feeding frenzy that's driving up the cost of ammo needlessly.

Forrest

[fusalautoleger]

hey rember on gilligans island when gilligan exsposed the rest of the castaways to radiaion and the profecser made them all eat soap.

[Cozmacozmy]

Man... I just went out and bought all the soap they had at Wal-Mart....:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The cleark said some guy named "411man" just bought out all the soap at another one...how odd!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[411man]

You know Soap (liquid and bar) is on my list for further acquisition BIG TIME. Women folk and sanitation issues don't you know.

That is if later this month events don't preempt my plans.

[millersm99]

I can't believe I wasted the time necessary to read through this thread. Especially since I knew who started it. Shame on me...

[Sig220]

Originally posted by 411man
You know Soap (liquid and bar) is on my list for further acquisition BIG TIME. Women folk and sanitation issues don't you know.

That is if later this month events don't preempt my plans.

Ah........you still got plenty of time to acquire your disired items.....I don't want to know the details of what you use it for, though.:biggrin:

edited to add: Ya just got to love the last sentence of his post..." That is if later this month events don't preempt my plans."

Almost bordering on a drama queen.

[English Mike]

Originally posted by Sig220
Almost bordering on a drama queen.

What do you mean "almost"?

Mr shitforbrains has been acting the goat since his first post.
He has made more predictions than Nostradamus, in the hope that ONE of them comes good.
Then he'll be all over tha place, saying "I told you so".

He is getting to be more boring than a very boring thing:rolleyes: