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View Full Version : The U.S. Air Force's New BDU (FINAL VERSION)


Kyrottimus
March 23, 2006, 04:17
Ok, so I'm sure everyone is aware of the uniform changes done recently by the Marines and then the Army.

I was in the AF when I first saw an attrociously ugly new tiger-stripe camo pattern though up for the AF. It was freaking blue and teal and sky-blue-grey. I wanted to puke.

Luckily, they picked a better design.

Here is what they have finally decided on (and it is official now).

My C/O (whom I still talk to frequently) sent me this:

http://upload4.postimage.org/53778/060317_F_0000R_001_1_.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/53778/photo_hosting.html)
"AIR POWER!" - "SPACE POWER, A-E-F!!!" (Air Expeditionary Force)

It's a digital tiger-stripe pattern, with motsly browns, greys, grey-greens and brownish-greys (tan?). It also features no-polish boots and the BDU's are wash and wear (no ironing, starch or dry-cleaning required).

The only thing left for them to discuss is where to put he Enlisted rank ensignia. Some still want them to be sewn onto the sleeves like the current BDU's, but some want to go the way of the army and put all ranks on the hat and lapels.

On a side note: Here is what the Navy is thinking about for their new uniform.

http://www.uniformmarket.com/magazine/110204/graphics/navy1.jpg

ugly if you ask me... I could totally design a new camo uniform. I already have for Counter-Strike Source.

torquemada055
March 23, 2006, 04:54
Why would the navy go for an urban camo pattern?
That would work great in a burning city, but what are you going to hide from on a ship?

Artful
March 23, 2006, 06:16
Originally posted by torquemada055
Why would the navy go for an urban camo pattern?
That would work great in a burning city, but what are you going to hide from on a ship?

SP's?:rofl:

alphadog58
March 23, 2006, 10:52
Well what will they think up next? When I was a young airman working on the flightline in the early 70's, we wore plain green fatigues. My sergeant used to call me Mister Wrinkle. My reply was always," If god wanted us to look like this, he would have given us baggy green skin and shiny black feet!":tongue: Only thing that saved my sorry ass was that I was one of his best gunplumbers on our AC130's.

Larry

Da Nerd
March 23, 2006, 12:24
When I was in USMC RECON in the early 50's, we could not find any camo of any kind and we needed it.
Now every dork has to wear camo.
Air Force ...Navy...... WTF,?

Sailor553
March 23, 2006, 13:13
Do they still wear those bus driver's uniforms?:angel:

Falunga
March 23, 2006, 15:00
Camo?

What camo? All I see is some floating hands and a face....

ooooooh....scary!

Jim :fal: FALunga

ALBPM
March 23, 2006, 15:30
Do they make Cubical Camo????

I need to be able to hide in my Cubical at work.....:biggrin: :tongue:

Kyrottimus
March 23, 2006, 16:06
When I was in USMC RECON in the early 50's, we could not find any camo of any kind and we needed it. Now every dork has to wear camo.
Air Force ...Navy...... WTF,?

Ok guys, enough picking on the Air Force. I know people like to rag on it and call it the Chair Force and Air Farce and other crap like that. I'm not saying we're as elite as USMC recon, but there are elements of the USAF, such as the RED HORSE and Prime BEEF elements that I served in.

RED HORSE
(Rapid Engineer Deployable Heavy Operational Repair Squadron Engineer)

And Prime BEEF
(Base Emergency Engineer Force)

These elements of Air Force Civil Engineers may not sound tough, but when they come up for deployment, they are usually the first on the scene with US Army Rangers and USAF Security Forces. When the Rangers and SF's are securing a newly Captured Air Firled (Bagram, Afghanistan, for example. This happened during the invasion of Afghanistan). If the Air Force wants that runway to be used ASAP, they need their own people there to make sure the Rangers don't blow up any vital part of the air base.

Maybe that's why Air Force CE troops quite frequently go to the Army's Air Assault and Airborne Schools, I even had an NCO in Tech school with his Ranger tab.

There is a reason why my tech school was at Fort Leonard Wood's Detachment 7, Air Force, Army Chemical School.

I was Readiness (AKA Disaster Preparedness, AKA NBCDT Instructor, AKA Gas-Mask Guru, AKA Chem-head, AKA Crazy M-Effer), but our primary wartime task was CBRNE Recon.

CBRNE Recon is a relatively new term, so you may not know it.

Conventional, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear and Explosives Reconaissance (Explosvies does NOT mean we disarm, we simply locate and call the EOD guys).

Yeah, so I may not have been USMC Force Recon, but I most definately was not a Chair jockey. Our Flight (Unit) wrote, operated and maintained the FSTR (Full Spectrum Threat Response). During wartime, if a newly established air base were about ready to be attacked, CE Readiness Troops were most likely the first ones to find out about it (and subsequently get shot at and return fire). While Readiness is not to engage, there is a reason why we were the only CE troops on the grould to be issued both the M16A2 and the M9. We were definately supposed to return fire adequately to cover our tactical egress back to base. In CE, we were the only ones regularly outside of the base.

Remember one thing before you dog on the Air Force. The PJ's, Combat Controllers, Sere Instructors, LRS troops, SF's (Security Forces, AKA Security Police, AKA Military Police) and CE (Civil Engineers) are the Air Force's Infantry. While CE has a primary job of setting up a bare-base for expediant operations, we are always armed while deployed in a new AO.

I know men, personally, that did not come back from Afghanistan or Iraq because they were killed in action. Air Force men.

We all have a job to do... I know the Marines are the toughest junk-yard-dogs we have to fight with, this is true. They go in first, leave the last, and kick ass everywhere in between.

I love the Marines. At Fort Lost in the Woods the Marines and Air Force Guys (when we weren't fighting over the Air Force chicks) would constantly prank the Navy detachment guys, and rip on the Army troopers... especially those still in basic training.

All I'm saying is you can rip on the Air Force all you want, just have a little disclaimer immediately following it:

***Not including Security Forces, Civil Engineers (That includes EOD), Logistics Readiness, PJ's, Combat Controllers or SERE instructors.

Just remember, AEF stands for Air Expeditionary Force... That's right. The AF took more than the just Marine's style of Basic Training in the 21st century. They took their efficent and quick method of deployment as well.

Much appreciated. Here are some other of my arguments:


http://www.pacom.mil/imagery/archive/0103photos/010316zafosan-h.jpg
OSAN, Republic of Korea -- Senior Airman Michael McCaghren and Airman 1st Class Aaron Banks, 51st Security Forces Squadron, Osan Air Base Republic of Korea, man a defensive fighting position during Osan's Operational Readiness Inspection on March 15. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Justin D. Pyle)

And the next ones are all Civil Engineer Readiness Troops (What I was). Not to be confused with the Logistics Readiness Squadron, they are basically the drivers and equipment shippers. They do drive us in our convoy operations though, often under fire, God bless'em.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060314-F-5853M-188.JPG
GIRRE
Senior Airman Vit Harwell takes position during the convoy and weapons familiarization training portion of the Guam Initial Readiness Response Exercise, or GIRRE, Tuesday, March 14, 2006. The GIRRE is an annual island-wide exercise between Andersen Air Force Base and Naval Marianas to train on war plan deployments and joint disaster response skills. During the GIRRE, 300 Air Expeditionary Force Airmen will participate under conditions they may see when deployed. The mission of this exercise is readiness and to prepare AEF Airmen with skills they can use to keep alive downrange while working with Navy and Government of Guam agencies on disaster response to save lives at home. Airman Harwell is with the 36th Civil Engineering Squadron. (U.S. Air Force photo/Airman 1st Class Miranda Moorer)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060314-F-5853M-098.jpg
Airmen receive convoy and weapons familiarization training during the Guam Initial Readiness Response Exercise, or GIRRE, Tuesday, March 14, 2006. The GIRRE is an annual island-wide exercise between Andersen Air Force Base and Naval Marianas to train on deployments and joint disaster response skills. (U.S. Air Force photo/Airman 1st Class Miranda Moorer)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/030306-F-0000S-001.jpg
This is basically what I looked like a lot during our Chem-bio-nuclear exercises. (Outside a convetionally hostile AO)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060215-F-9999X-001.jpg
TYNDALL AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. - Airman 1st Class James Faria, 509th Civil Engineer Squadron Readiness Apprentice, collects samples as part of a reconnaissance team, which checked for chemicals after an initial chemical attack during Silver Flag training at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla. Forty-two Whiteman Airmen attended the five-and-a-half day deployment training.

Yeah, I know this guy. Served with him for a good 13 months at Whiteman. One of the biggest smartasses I've ever known in my life.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060217-F-9596D-001.jpg
RED HORSE ORI success
Readiness troops...
Hurlburt Field Fla. -- Two 823rd RED HORSE Squadron Airmen put on their nuclear, biological and chemical gear as part of an alarm condition red during the squadron's operational readiness inspection redo recently. The 823rd RHS earned a satisfactory rating.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060205-F-8110H-004.jpg
Yeah I don't know this guy... He's a reservist. Didn't mingle too much with the 442nd. Mainly just the 509th (active duty).
***WHITEMAN AFB, Mo. -- Senior Airman Christopher Brockway, 442nd Logistics Readiness Squadron vehicle operations, decontaminates a vehicle door handle for a decontamination training exercise during the February 2006 Unit Training Assembly. The 442nd LRS is part of the 442nd Fighter Wing, an Air Force Reserve unit based at Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo. (Photo by Master Sgt. Bill Huntington

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060123-F-5924C-009.jpg
OSAN AIR BASE, South Korea (AFPN) -- Airman 1st Class Rusty Moreno provides cover during a simulated attack here Jan. 23. The Peninsula Combat Employment Readiness Exercise, or PENCERE, scenarios tested Osan's ability to protect its operations from missile attacks, and the insertion of thousands of enemy special operations forces looking to disrupt operations. Airman Moreno is with the 51st Security Forces Squadron.

If it says "Readiness Exercise", it means we are heavily invovled in it, probably out doing recon (AKA Recce`) patrols.



Here is what the LRS boys do. They protect us during convoys while moving from point A to point B.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060107-f-2907c-119.JPG
4 million miles
BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq (AFPN) -- Staff Sgt. Viktor Hancock checks the area behind an armor-modified vehicle as he heads to debrief with other Airmen. The Airmen celebrated their return from a convoy security mission that made the 4-million mile mark. Sergeant Hancock is a gunner with the 732nd Expeditionary Logistics Readiness Squadron and is deployed from Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.


More LRS boys...
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051210-F-8224M-049.jpg
Gun truck
BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq (AFPN) -- Chief Master Sgt. Shawn Keller and Senior Airman Levi Parrish assemble a machine gun on the top of a gun truck. Both Airmen are with the 732nd Expeditionary Logistics Readiness Squadron

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051112-F-6705C-066.jpg
Escort
TIKRIT, Iraq -- Senior Airman James Correll stands atop a 5-ton truck as he prepares to set out on a convoy from forward operating base Speicher. Airmen with the 732nd Expeditionary Logistics Readiness Squadron here provide armed escort of combat logics patrols to ensure passengers and cargo safely reach their destinations throughout Iraq.


and yes... we still do marksmanship training. Live-fire with 80 rounds, same as the Army.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051101-A-0000S-008.jpg
Airmen learn Army skills
CAMP ATTERBURY, Ind. (AFPN) -- Tech Sgt. Steven Halloway, a vehicle maintenance repairman with 18th Logistics Readiness Squadron, fires his M-16 rifle during marksmanship training Oct. 26.





And here is when training gets fun. When we did do Warfare CON-OPs training, our unit was always the opposing force (since we headed up most of the training for Prime BEEF day).
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051020-F-0000N-006.JPG

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051020-F-0000N-007.JPG

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/051020-F-0000N-009.JPG
Mock attack
EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. -- Staff Sgt. Jason Libman and Senior Airman Renaldo Miller lead an "opposing forces" attack on a defensive fighting position during an exercise here. The mock attack -- part of an operational readiness inspection -- was on a 728th Air Control Squadron deployed radar site




I think that's enough venting. You guys get the idea that the Air Force does plenty of gound-pounding.

Every Branch has their administrative and clerical-type troops. Then again, every branch has their badasses who know their way around a rifle and a tactical combat situation.

In the Marines it's "Ooo-Rah!"
In the Navy it's "Hoo-Rah!"
In the Army it's "Hooah!"
In the Air Force, it's, "HUA!". (It sounds the same as the Army).
At least the Air Force grunting sound has an applicable Acronym..

Heard, Understood, Acknowledged.

Respectfully, maybe next time you'll think twice about calling an Air Force trooper (or veteran) a "Dork".

I come from a long line of veterans. My father was in the Army; my Grandfather and Uncle, the Navy, my Great Uncle, the Marines. I was the first to join the Air Force. When I did, I made sure it wasn't a chair-force job. I wasn't dissapointed. Well, during regular base operations it did get boring sometimes. But other than that...



Do they still wear those bus driver's uniforms?

No, the bus-driver cap is no longer issued but can still be purchased at the clothing supply. Last I remember, the Army wore the same type of "bus-driver" hat. To be perfectly honest, I think they are better than the current "Krispy Kreme" caps that both the AF and Army wear in their Service Dress.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
March 23, 2006, 17:35
Look at the boots on the zoomie captain. Yep, a highly disciplined leader of men that one.

owlcreekok
March 23, 2006, 17:51
Well shit. I was gonna offer an atypical Marine comment. Damn you HBR and Danerd. You've stolen my thunder. I am truly pissed off.

To top that off, the zoomie sez I gotta put a disclaimer if I say anything derogatory about the USAF.

Fine.

Dragoon777
March 23, 2006, 18:04
It looks like the uniform designers are missing the whole point of camouflage. It is supposed to break up the contour and identifiable characteristics of the wearer, NOT look cool. The tiger stripe is ASSININE. When you look at someone wearing tiger stripe trying to hide in field conditions(foliage), they stand out big time. The Urban- Navy cammo is even worse. I sure hope the Navy SEALS, and the Air Force Search and Rescue types are not forced to wear those, half-assed fashion statements. I guess if you are some REMF sitting in the rear with the gear you might not worry about that.

BlueDuck
March 23, 2006, 18:58
The last AF weenie/grunt I was on patrol w/ in An Najaf, Iraq would not tell the AC130 crew to put the 105 rounds where I wanted them...instead he told the AC to drop altitude and use the 40MM. Not sure why he wouldn't...there were no good guys (other than us) around and a river inbetween us and the bad guys. I wasn't impressed w/ the results of the 40MM. I wanted to see some big fire damnit! Real tough guys those TACPs were I tell ya. I wound up bringing in a tank and using 120 heat to get the nasties out of the target building. Those AF guys were a waste of seat space in my trucks if you ask me. Enjoy.

PS...I'm sure those guys are not indicative of all TACPs....so don't get your panties in too tight of a wad.

Just realized my post has nothing to do with the commo discussion....I hope your new cammies are as commfy as the ACUs. There...now I'm on topic.

BlueDuck

tigerfans2
March 23, 2006, 20:12
"Airmen learn Army skills
CAMP ATTERBURY, Ind. (AFPN) -- Tech Sgt. Steven Halloway, a vehicle maintenance repairman with 18th Logistics Readiness Squadron, fires his M-16 rifle during marksmanship training Oct. 26."

Pretty damning commentary if you ask me.

Chair force weinies wearing cammy makes as much sense as Army supply REMF's wearing frog headpieces.

And before you get your panties in a wad: USAF, 2 June '68 - 22 Mar '78

Graziani
March 23, 2006, 20:29
dammit. So every branch is going to get separate camo pattern BDU's.

This is a dumba$$ move and will put more more strategic supply strain and put more $$$ in contractors' pockets.

What was wrong with the older camo BDU patterns? They actually conceal pretty good in woods.

Kyrottimus
March 23, 2006, 21:45
Look at the boots on the zoomie captain. Yep, a highly disciplined leader of men that one.

In case you didn't bother to read my long comment, the new boots are no-polish (that means no more fussing with shiny boots). Its far more practical in a real-man's military if you ask me. I'd rather spend more time at the range than polishing boots.

dammit. So every branch is going to get separate camo pattern BDU's.

This is a dumba$$ move and will put more more strategic supply strain and put more $$$ in contractors' pockets.

What was wrong with the older camo BDU patterns? They actually conceal pretty good in woods.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sticking with my Woodland BDU's.





As far as everyone else, I really don't care anymore. I served with Army, Marines and Navy too. All fine men in their own respects. I have plenty of things to gripe about too, but it's not my place to piss and moan about the jobs others do in the different branches.

I agree, in the percentage of each Branch's population, the amount of "hardcore" Airman is relatively low to the Marines... But I guess I was one of those "hardcore" "gung-ho" troops that only hung out with the other uber-troopers. I did see the "weenies" disgracing the uniform by looking like slobs or acting like a moron, but I stayed away from them.

There are slackers in every branch, I've seen them all.

adam762
March 23, 2006, 22:11
Geez, I don't remember Atterbury beeing so green... we set the range on fire SEVERAL times with the 60s. Been... wow... 12 years ago, though.

What were we talking about???

Hebrew Battle Rifle
March 24, 2006, 03:27
Originally posted by Kyrottimus


In case you didn't bother to read my long comment, the new boots are no-polish (that means no more fussing with shiny boots). Its far more practical in a real-man's military if you ask me. I'd rather spend more time at the range than polishing boots.



I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sticking with my Woodland BDU's.





As far as everyone else, I really don't care anymore. I served with Army, Marines and Navy too. All fine men in their own respects. I have plenty of things to gripe about too, but it's not my place to piss and moan about the jobs others do in the different branches.

I agree, in the percentage of each Branch's population, the amount of "hardcore" Airman is relatively low to the Marines... But I guess I was one of those "hardcore" "gung-ho" troops that only hung out with the other uber-troopers. I did see the "weenies" disgracing the uniform by looking like slobs or acting like a moron, but I stayed away from them.

There are slackers in every branch, I've seen them all.


Get yer skivvies outa yer buttcrack man. It is just good natured fun.

USMC 0341
March 24, 2006, 04:43
And nobody has yet mentioned what the USAF is calling its new uniform. Officially, it is the Airman Battle Uniform and the official acronym is ABU. So do we call this the "ABU garb"? Or would that be too close to "Abu ghraib"?

I ain't sayin' one less-than-noble thing about any airmen out there - present or past. But this uniform?

I was in the Marines when the Corps based in CONUS went from the old green sateens to the Vietnam issue cammies. Lots of us grunts even questioned why we, as a unit based in California, needed to start wearing jungle camouflage.

The fact is plain - what is the reason for the airmen who will not have to go out in the field to sit around wearing camo? (I don't challenge the reason for the actual gunslinging airmen to wear camo - just the dedicated desk jockeys, ultra-rear-echelon mech-heads, etc.). I just want to hear the reasons the powers-that-be gave for this change - and see if any of them can be said out loud with a straight face.

owlcreekok
March 24, 2006, 07:07
I always thought the Nav' had the best idea for work duds. Blue jeans and a chambray shirt. Comfortable, low maintenance and fit the tasks. I too wore the sateens during the first part of my USMC hitch. When the powers that be would let us wear "fluff dry", we were comfortable doing our jobs on the flight line and around the hangar. (yep, I was a Marine Air Winger) Then they made us wear nomex on the line and the jungle cammies off the line. Talk about a bitch to press into inspection shape !IIRC the dry cleaners would make the sateens into starched boards for $1.50 a set. Soon after the Cammies came out, the bastages doubled the price. Give me the good old sateen "humilities" for garrison work any day.

I just remembered the only positive about the jungle camo we had to wear. For a carton of smokes, the guys in Flight Equipment would sew velcro on all your cammie pocket's flaps. Our Sgt. Maj. LOVED to gig us on inspection for having pockets unbuttoned. He would come up to you, snatch your rifle, fiddle with it, hand it back. When you went back to order arms he would pull the tunis tail aside to see if your brass was polished and then flip a couple pockets to see if they were unbuttoned. One speck of dirt on the rifle + tarnished brass + one pocket not fastened and your ass pulled "Duty Suction" every night for a month.

Before you get started, Big Bob, in four years, I spent exactly HALF my time with my parent unit. While there the same damn CO was always in command. He was a grunt retread and made us stand inspection with weapons EVERY week. He was a certified asshole, but he also made us go to the range twice a quarter. :love: About the only thing I can brag about my 4 yrs in the Corps was that only about three guys in my unit ever posted a higher score than I did firing the B modified course. :shades:

spartacus2002
March 24, 2006, 07:43
I saw the thread title, thought we were discussing these

http://dts.ystoretools.com/1039/images/250x1000/508.jpg

YankeeWhite
March 24, 2006, 08:39
That's old scoop on the Navy version. They are going to a very dark blue and black version of Marpat, and will also have a desert and woodland version for sailors who may need them. Different cut, desig and poockets etc.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
March 24, 2006, 14:39
ABU GARB! :rofl: :rofl:



spartacus2002, that is too funny!!

trucksurfer
March 24, 2006, 16:42
Originally posted by spartacus2002
I saw the thread title, thought we were discussing these

http://dts.ystoretools.com/1039/images/250x1000/508.jpg

:uhoh: Holy Crap! That is freakin' funny! Fitting for most of the AF pukes I ever knew! The only change I would make is to add little booties on the feet, and make it a one piece.

Kyrottimus
March 24, 2006, 17:20
Originally posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle

Get yer skivvies outa yer buttcrack man. It is just good natured fun.

I don't have a buttcrack. Uncle Sam never issued me one. I do have 8 pair of standard GI skivvies that were issued to me though. :biggrin:


Originally posted by USMC 0341
And nobody has yet mentioned what the USAF is calling its new uniform. Officially, it is the Airman Battle Uniform and the official acronym is ABU. So do we call this the "ABU garb"? Or would that be too close to "Abu ghraib"?

I ain't sayin' one less-than-noble thing about any airmen out there - present or past. But this uniform?

I was in the Marines when the Corps based in CONUS went from the old green sateens to the Vietnam issue cammies. Lots of us grunts even questioned why we, as a unit based in California, needed to start wearing jungle camouflage.

The fact is plain - what is the reason for the airmen who will not have to go out in the field to sit around wearing camo? (I don't challenge the reason for the actual gunslinging airmen to wear camo - just the dedicated desk jockeys, ultra-rear-echelon mech-heads, etc.). I just want to hear the reasons the powers-that-be gave for this change - and see if any of them can be said out loud with a straight face.

+1 :beer: I couldn't agree with you more. Desk Jockies (Which ALL branches have) should just wear Gray or OD or something. Those in harm's way, let's give them what they need to maximize their concealment. Woodland, 3-Color Desert, Artic, Jungle, shoot even Mossy-oak. Whatever is practical and works.

It's about time the Goverment starts spending federal taxpayer's money on R&D for REAL equipment that makes a difference in the field, and not on a damn fashion show.

Branches want uniqueness? Stick with the Branch-Tape on the chest and the enlisted rank insignias. That's unique enough. Make it easier on the supply chain to make three types of uniforms for all branches:


Service Dress

Utility Uniform (for rear-echelon and desk jockies, wrench-turners or other support roles)

Battle Dress Uniform (which varies in camouflage pattern for the environment).


Anything else is just excessive. And what is with this digital crap? You don't see little freaking pixels in nature. We should go to something like the Germans have with their Flectar if you ask me. Now that is some damn effective camo in most temperate environments (especially CONUS or Europe).

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/085146.jpg

Originally posted by spartacus2002
I saw the thread title, thought we were discussing these
http://dts.ystoretools.com/1039/images/250x1000/508.jpg


That is pretty funny... :tongue:

Originally posted by trucksurfer
Holy Crap! That is freakin' funny! Fitting for most of the AF pukes I ever knew! The only change I would make is to add little booties on the feet, and make it a one piece.

Don't make me list all of the experiances I've had with Army troops. If you're talking about pukes anyway:

"At least Air Force troops don't need to be trained to wipe their own asses." - Tsgt Cammerata, Ft. Leonard Wood, Air Force Detachment 7 to his Army Colleague, Sgt. Thames, Army Chemical School.

I didn't say it, just relaying it. I thought it was funny.

ARMY stands for, "Air-Force Rejected Me Yesterday"
USMC stands for, "Underwear Stains My Crack"
NAVY stands for, "Now Accepting Verile Youths"

SJetwrench
March 24, 2006, 18:00
As an not so old former squid Navy really means-

Never Again Volunteer Yourself

fred g
March 24, 2006, 22:21
Flectar IS the best.

Why are we wasting money trying to reinvent the wheel?

Gunny71
March 24, 2006, 22:32
I don't have a buttcrack. Uncle Sam never issued me one.

Thats the best thing I have read all day:rofl:

Sprayed budweiser all over the screen.

Celt
March 25, 2006, 01:10
I always knew the Air Farce was retarted, and couldn't fight worth a sh*t in a bar.

Semper Fi.

Celt :whiskey: :beer:
USMC 0351 '87-'91

loneeagle308
March 25, 2006, 06:07
I happen to like the digi cam NAvy BDU's. I Look fwd to them going in to effect in '07. Not for the camo capabilities of course. But paint is a pain in the ass on the ship. Coveralls will most likely never change anyways though so the problem will never go away with keeping anything clean. What pisses me off the most about the new uniform is going away with the ships ball cap. Since camo is not needed on the ship then the prescribed uniform of the day should be a ships ball cap. Screw uniformity. They state that the uniform committee priority is maintaining tradition but doing away with a tradition that originated in WWII is too much. I will be majorly disappointed if that tradition is broken. Only in port do the blue common utilities get worn. I wore dungrees before and they sucked bad.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
March 25, 2006, 06:31
Originally posted by loneeagle308
Screw uniformity.


I agree. Let everybody wear whatever they want to wear. That will solve all of the logistical problem associated with uniforms as well as do away with those time wasting uniform inspections.

Kyrottimus
March 25, 2006, 09:24
I always knew the Air Farce was retarted, and couldn't fight worth a sh*t in a bar.

Semper Fi.

Celt
USMC 0351 '87-'91

That's funny, the 2 bar-fights I was invovled in (Outside of Fort Leonard Wood at Big Daddy's, and a 3rd fight I was not invovled in) all were between Marines and Airmen, and all three times the Marines basically LOST because they underestimated the Airmen, BIG TIME.

Then again we three were all big guys, 6'2" - 6'7", 180lbs-260lbs.... and easy targets for jarhead antagonism. Little did those drunken bullet-sponges know that one guy was a mixed-martial artist from Phili (UFC type stuff, only local to his area), the other, a plumber from South Boston, and myself a boxer from Chicago, trained by seven generations of fighters.

I'm not saying the Marines didn't get any hits in... I'm just saying they didn't get many... both times. And at the end of everything, when we all got thrown out, they were no longer as eager to bother us anymore while we were tagging cabs to get back on the Fort.

Then again a lot has changed in the AF in the past 6 years. AF basic is more like Marine Boot Camp than anything. PT standards are WAY higher. Marksmanship is being emphasized finally at CATM. Full-gear marches are more and more common. It's almost like the new Air Force concept of "Air Expeditionary Force" is to work in tandem with the ground forces as opposed to a strictly "We bomb this here, then we're done" mentality.

It doesn't matter AT ALL what uniform you wear or what branch you are in. When you're young and still in tech-school, background and experiance go back much further than the military. We were all men before we wore uniforms. All men that maybe would have met as civilians, not knowing what our past experiances were.

I think the Marines have a lot to be proud of. They are well-trained infantry troops. Primarily with small-arms tactics, marksmanship and hand-to-hand basics (NOT advanced). But sometimes that goes to their heads and they think they are better than everyone else. Maybe better at somethings, but not everything.

I've heard plenty of stories of Airmen getting their asses kicked because they were jumped by twice (or more) as many Marines. More often than anything. I know the Marines are loyal to each other. The Air Force does not have the comeradery as the Marines do within their branch, so be rest-assured you're not going to see as many Airmen jump in to help out their fellow Mosquito Wings and Dragonflies (E-2's and E-3's)

The Air Force definately has a really divided beurocracy in place, and each squadron and flight is fairly tight-night, but generally AF troops as a whole are far more independant than the Marines. Also, they ARE NOT TRAINED to fight hand-to-hand like the marines are. Basically, during one day of the FTX (Field Training Exercise), some basic hand-to-hand techniques are covered, but are far less in-depth as Marine Hand-to-Hand training.


It's sad when men have to make themselves feel better by jumping a couple of guys with between 5 and a dozen. And I thought Marines were "The best"... if so then why would they need so many more guys?

So exuse the Airman for not having as many buddies to back him up or as much muscle on his bones. They focus more on running for long distances in the AF than lifting weights like in the Marines (God knows why... I think the AF should focus the most on lifting weights... it has the biggest inventory of ordnance in the military. I figure that much stuff to drop on places would require some strong mofo's to load aircraft up. But no, for some reason they just run us all PT hour long everyday) Oh yeah, I forgot. At the MEPS station the Air Force strength test (the military wall-press) requirements are set at a good 8" higher than the Army. But that's just one stupid test.

"He who underestimates his enemy has already lost." - Sun Tzu, the Art of War


Anyone can sling out anectodes, but I have one that should hopefully, at least momentarily, bring pride to anyone who has served in the military.





When I was in basic, I heard this story from our TI (training instructor):

A young Sailor was walking, alone one evening, in the streets of San Antonio (his hometown; he was stationed at Lackland) while he was off duty. He was still in his Seaman's uniform, and was cutting through a fairly seedy area to visit his home.

As he passed a bar frequented by the troops,, about a block down, he was jumped by about ten latino gang members. They were not mugging him, or anything. They were beating him down strictly for entertainment.

Luckily, as a Marine was leaving the bar, he saw it go down. He immediately went back into the bar, and told his buddies in a fairly loud voice, and said, "Anyone else care to stop a sailor from getting beaten, step outside, now..."

Marines, Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors, all in tow, came up on this group of thugs so fast, they finished kicking their asses before they even know it begun. A lot of those gang-bangers wound up in the hospital that night with broken bones and one with a lacerated liver.

The unlucky Sailor had a severe concussion, a ruptured eye, broken jaw, broken nose, missing 4 teeth and a collapsed windpipe. He survived, but had it not been for the twenty five or so military personnel there to stop it, he would probably have died.

That night, as it SHOULD be, every branch was on the same side.

I know a lot of branches think it is cute to rag on the other branches...

..but seriously it gets old after awhile.

WE ARE ALL MEN. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS... and we ALL have a FREAKING JOB TO DO.

This whole branch-pride thing is good to a point. When it becomes like highschool when the Football Players, the Baseball Players, the Hockey Players, and the Basketball Players all pick fights inbetween themselves,
it's rediculous.

trucksurfer
March 25, 2006, 11:27
Kyrottimus,

OK man, you are taking some joking and kidding too seriously, and some folks are being too serious about it dishing it out. I for one was joking about Air Farce pukes. I had an Uncle who did two tours in SE Asia and was an F4 jokey from '60 to '75 before he went on to fly cattle cars for Delta. He told me, emphatically, that I should join the USAF, but at the time the AF wasn't offering any incentives, such as Army College Fund, etc. I wanted that money, so I joined the Army. Well lets just say that my time around Air Force bases changed my thoughts. First off, on the tiny camp I was on in Korea we had a small AF detachment, weather station or commo or something, I didn't really pay much attention. They had their own barracks, nicely appointed, apartment style living basically. They also got separate rations and allowance for "sub-standard living" because they were relagated to this barbaric Army camp. My buddies and I also spent time at Osan AFB, home of the 51st FW, one word....NICE. The round eye population was of a much higher quality than what we were used to, and actually nicer too! We rarely went to Seoul to party, but went to Songtan every chance we got. The AF folks and locals were more polite, and less likely to throw down, and were a classier bunch of joes.
My next experiences with AF people was in a llittle town at the foothills of the Rockies in Colorado, with a VERY high AF population...I am sure you can guess. Well I found it odd that if locals knew I was in the Army I was a target, if they thought I was in the AF, I was cool. (Amazing what a little strategically placed long hair can do!) My unit spent some time down in NM at the home of the 49th FW. We were kept in a '60s or '70s era three story concrete building, of the same design and construction as our barracks in CO. Funny thing though was that our barracks were arranged in small 1-2 man rooms with communal latrine at either end of the hall. Tile floors, and cinder block walls, irregular heat and no AC (not realy a big deal in CO though). Cable TV and phone service had to be approved by the CO and installation paid for by the troop for your own room, and too bad if you got reassigned rooms, the next guy got a freebie (being a commo puke, it wasn't an issue though, because we could reinstall it where ever we wanted, and one cable subscription usually serviced two or three rooms.) Anyway, these billets in NM were immaculate! Paneled walls, carpeted floors, a bathroom between every two rooms, AIR CONDITIONING. Basic phone service and cable were provided to all rooms, and then we found out that the building had been condemned! It was due for demolition because it was considered substandard housing and not good enough for AF! WTF!!!
My last encounter with AF was with a young girl from my home town describing her experiences in Basic and Tech School....needless to say i was unimpressed when she complained about having to get up a 0600 for PT. Bt the time 0600 rolled around for me in Basic, I had made my bunk, done PT, shit, showered, shaved, cleaned the barracks, and was probably eating breakfast.
Why didn't I listen to my uncle!!!!:?

mparrish
March 25, 2006, 17:11
As a 10 year vet of the Air Force (weapons loader, CATM, TACP - **** you treadheads and your tin can boomers - that is what DU is for . . .:), I'll say it - COLLOSSAL WASTE OF TAX PAYER MONEY. That goes for all the branches and their dumb needs to be "unique." Blame it on the jarheads for starting this shit with their digis that they copied from the Canadians.

I started wearing pickle suits, then woodies, then woodies with that stupid leather name plates before ending up somewhere back to normal. I live through bus drivers, McPeak (asshole), the airline pilot blues without any embellishment, with awards. If the Marines wanted to look different, thay walked tall (when not hung over) and wore a different cover. You could tell the AF thanks to the lovely blue chevrons on the sleeves. The navy was easy enough to tell. Weight standards, anyone?

The purpose of everyone going to woodies in the 90s was simply to streamline the log train. One uniform, four different branches. Made things easy. Was woodie the best? No. But they worked for most of the environments we operated in. Frankly, if the DOD was looking for an effective all purpose camo for everyone, they should have adopted multi-cam (a variation of Fleck in my eyes).

I will admit that this AF digi uniform is an improvement over the gay blue tiger stripes they were floating out there (looks like the navy took that one and ran - or is it the blue woodies?).

But in the end, it is all rather stupid and wasteful. Modify the woodies to be more battle effective, stop the needless spit and shine and get to the real job. In the end, no one cares what color your uniform is when you are in the shit getting things done.

Kyrottimus
March 25, 2006, 19:15
Kyrottimus,

OK man, you are taking some joking and kidding too seriously, and some folks are being too serious about it dishing it out.

It may not seem like it but I have a great sense of humor. But please exuse me if I can't differentiate sarcasm through text. In real life it is far easier; a person's tone of voice and body language is a dead giveaway they are merely joking around. Here I can't tell if someone is serious about what they say unless they follow up with something like.... "JK" or "(Note my sarcasm)".

I didn't know everyone was kidding. I'm not psychic and the words themselves didn't allude to being sarcastic to me.


We were kept in a '60s or '70s era three story concrete building, of the same design and construction as our barracks in CO. Funny thing though was that our barracks were arranged in small 1-2 man rooms with communal latrine at either end of the hall. Tile floors, and cinder block walls, irregular heat and no AC (not realy a big deal in CO though). Cable TV and phone service had to be approved by the CO and installation paid for by the troop for your own room, and too bad if you got reassigned rooms, the next guy got a freebie (being a commo puke, it wasn't an issue though, because we could reinstall it where ever we wanted, and one cable subscription usually serviced two or three rooms.) Anyway, these billets in NM were immaculate! Paneled walls, carpeted floors, a bathroom between every two rooms, AIR CONDITIONING. Basic phone service and cable were provided to all rooms, and then we found out that the building had been condemned! It was due for demolition because it was considered substandard housing and not good enough for AF! WTF!!!
My last encounter with AF was with a young girl from my home town describing her experiences in Basic and Tech School....needless to say i was unimpressed when she complained about having to get up a 0600 for PT. Bt the time 0600 rolled around for me in Basic, I had made my bunk, done PT, shit, showered, shaved, cleaned the barracks, and was probably eating breakfast.
Why didn't I listen to my uncle!!!!

That is one benefit for being in the AF... With so much money being thrown at AF bases (because of the extremely expensive bombers, munitions, fighters, support equipment, etc.), a lot of the extra money trickles down through the base coffers... ustually intended for creature comforts.

I know what living on an Army installation was like. I was stationed at Air Force's Detachment 7 at Ft. Leonard Wood for about four months. I never once got any "substandard living" pay; then again I wasn't permanent party yet either since it was my Tech School. But I do know what it is like sharing 1 bathroom between 8 guys, a really crappy heater and no AC. I made the best of it, I can't honestly complain.

As for your friend, I don't know if she was part of an experimental flight or what (they do that every so often I hear). When I was in basic, not much more than 3 years ago, our Flight (which was a standard style basic flight) woke up every day at 0445. We would have 5 minutes to wash up, shave, make our beds (with perfect hospital corners), get into PT gear, and fill our canteens. Then it was off to PT for an hour. We ate breakfast on our around 0600, and immediately following that, showered and got into our uniform of the day. Then it was anything from running the confidence course to sitting in a classroom learning about core values (Excellence, Integrity, Service before self.. blah blah blah).

Then again I was in one of the two hardest Basic Training Squadrons (usually for those most likely to see combat), the 331st TRS (Wolf Pack), AKA "Hell's Corner". We were almost entirely made up of guys who were going to Security Forces and CE, and a few stragglers who were recycled into our flight.

It is possible, though I'm not sure, that other squadrons had different schedules for the trainees.

As a 10 year vet of the Air Force (weapons loader, CATM, TACP - **** you treadheads and your tin can boomers - that is what DU is for . . ., I'll say it - COLLOSSAL WASTE OF TAX PAYER MONEY. That goes for all the branches and their dumb needs to be "unique." Blame it on the jarheads for starting this shit with their digis that they copied from the Canadians.

I started wearing pickle suits, then woodies, then woodies with that stupid leather name plates before ending up somewhere back to normal. I live through bus drivers, McPeak (asshole), the airline pilot blues without any embellishment, with awards. If the Marines wanted to look different, thay walked tall (when not hung over) and wore a different cover. You could tell the AF thanks to the lovely blue chevrons on the sleeves. The navy was easy enough to tell. Weight standards, anyone?

The purpose of everyone going to woodies in the 90s was simply to streamline the log train. One uniform, four different branches. Made things easy. Was woodie the best? No. But they worked for most of the environments we operated in. Frankly, if the DOD was looking for an effective all purpose camo for everyone, they should have adopted multi-cam (a variation of Fleck in my eyes).

I will admit that this AF digi uniform is an improvement over the gay blue tiger stripes they were floating out there (looks like the navy took that one and ran - or is it the blue woodies?).

But in the end, it is all rather stupid and wasteful. Modify the woodies to be more battle effective, stop the needless spit and shine and get to the real job. In the end, no one cares what color your uniform is when you are in the shit getting things done.

+1
:bow: I completely agree mparrish.

MarkBall
March 25, 2006, 19:54
Spent a year at Osan AB in ROK.........well about 7 months actually. The rest of the time in the PI, Japan, Okinawa or Thailand............ Never made it to Guam (Thank God!!!)

Trucksurfer.....when were you there? I was there Oct 1978 through Nov of 1979.

Personally, I spent 6 weeks at Camp Pendelton CA training for Security Alert Team duty. Was pretty rough there too. 6 Air Force guys among 12,000 - 16,000 Marines. We stood out like a sore thumb. We had OD fatigues with blue stripes, name tags.........Marines had green fatigues with OD/black name tags.

Can't say I really missed that duty. I did put that training to good use at a later date. But that's another story.

trucksurfer
March 26, 2006, 00:22
MarkBall,
I was there a LONG time after you...12/1990-12/1991, and probably spent more than half of my weekends there....if I wasn't in the field.

MarkBall
March 26, 2006, 09:14
Yes that was a long time after I was there. By that time I had already began my next career of nursing. (Grad 5-90).

When I was there, we had barracks about a half mile from the 36th AMU, all old wooden buildings with poor foundations. 15 rooms to a hallway, communal latrine in the middle of the building, then another 15 rooms. No AC, but had central heat.

Walked/ran everywhere on that base.

trucksurfer
March 26, 2006, 16:22
Originally posted by MarkBall

Walked/ran everywhere on that base.

I walked, stubbled and crawled everywhere in Songtan!!!:beer: :whiskey: :love:

MarkBall
March 26, 2006, 17:15
Ahhh, the memories of the "Green Bean" & "Brown Bean" tours.

Green bean meant newly arrived airmen got the tour of all 53 clubs..........had to have one drink in each one. And not the rice wine that tasted like Kool-Aide.

Brown Bean, your gut was stout enough to handle TWO drinks at all the clubs.

Step on the plane, puke your guts out, pass out, when you woke up........

You were in the USA.

Dorsai
March 26, 2006, 21:54
RE: The Navy uniform. Your info is out of date. The Navy has decided to go with a digital. They are also refreshingly upfront about the reason for the change and the design. They aren't attempting to "camoflauge" sailors with the ship. The puropose of the digital pattern is to hide grease, dirt and oil stains that quickly render a monocolor uniform like dungarees or khakis, unserviceable. It also hides wrinkles so the uniforms don't have to be ironed.

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/051101-N-2410F-001.jpg

loneeagle308
March 27, 2006, 00:10
Originally posted by Dorsai
RE: The Navy uniform. Your info is out of date. The Navy has decided to go with a digital. They are also refreshingly upfront about the reason for the change and the design. They aren't attempting to "camoflauge" sailors with the ship. The puropose of the digital pattern is to hide grease, dirt and oil stains that quickly render a monocolor uniform like dungarees or khakis, unserviceable. It also hides wrinkles so the uniforms don't have to be ironed.

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/051101-N-2410F-001.jpg
\
Yup thats the idea, to hide paint and grease. But no one in their right mind will wear that on the ship unless they do away with coveralls. Its much easier to wake up and 1/2 sleeping put coveralls on. I'm interested in seeing if they do away with balls caps though.

trucksurfer
March 27, 2006, 09:29
Originally posted by MarkBall
Ahhh, the memories of the "Green Bean" & "Brown Bean" tours.

Green bean meant newly arrived airmen got the tour of all 53 clubs..........had to have one drink in each one. And not the rice wine that tasted like Kool-Aide.

Brown Bean, your gut was stout enough to handle TWO drinks at all the clubs.

Step on the plane, puke your guts out, pass out, when you woke up........

You were in the USA.

Green Soldiers were "Turtles" and the various drainage ditches and gutters all over the various military posts (which were full of water during the monsoons) were called "Turtle Ditches". On weekends you could usually see the ditches filled with turtles puking their guts out after their first soju experiences.
Ah, those were the days, wanton sex, destruction, and binge drinking......College was alomst as much fun, but they didn't give me a weapon to play with, I had to provide my own! :wink: :whiskey:

Soldiers were allegedly knicknamed "Turtles" because of the in out-processing at Yongsan, it too you a whole freaking year to get across the street to outprocess, so you had to be a turtle.