PDA

View Full Version : Fal File Lawyer question-Deb Lafave is getting off


RT
March 21, 2006, 22:32
why can a sexual preditor get off? is it because she is a hotie? if it was 1 of us men doing a 14 yr old student we would be under the jail.KOAM you are in my state. why did she get off.she should be on FDLE web page as a So/ preditor. Rant off~R:mad:

Da Nerd
March 21, 2006, 22:41
She got off because she is entitled to face her accuser, and the accuser was not willing to testify against her. So they dropped he charges, after the judge refused to accept a 'plea bargain deal'.
That and the prosecutor was the same one who did not prosecute the people involved in Jessica Lungsford case I think...

vmtz
March 21, 2006, 22:44
So what is the story?

Vince

RT
March 21, 2006, 22:49
10 News This Morning Stories
Debra Lafave working on a plea


Video Story


E-mail This Article
Printable Version




TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Tampa prosecutors are preparing to offer a plea deal to a former Temple Terrace middle school teacher accused of having sex with a 14-year-old student.

Attorneys on both sides expect the case against 24-year-old Debra Lafave to be resolved by the next hearing set for June 16th.

Prosecutors claim teacher and student had sex in a portable classroom, her Riverview townhouse and on a trip to Ocala last year. The boy had been a student in Lafave's class at Greco Middle
School in Hillsborough County.

Lafave could face up to 15 years in prison and a designation as a sexual predator if convicted of the most serious charge of lewd and lascivious battery. The defense claims she has mental health problems.

Marion County prosecutors say it is premature to talk about a plea deal for charges in Ocala. But they could be resolved at the same time.

Da Nerd
March 21, 2006, 22:56
End story judge refused plea deal, prosecutor drops charges,, she walks.

Did I mention she is a 'hottie"?

RT
March 21, 2006, 23:00
i still feel that it is BS. if it was a man we would be under the jail~R

9thmoon
March 21, 2006, 23:11
You're absolutely right, rt, if their genders were reversed (s)he'd be in jail and somebody's new girlfriend by now. This is complete BS. :mad:

DYNOMIKE
March 21, 2006, 23:16
She IS A HOTTIE!!:devil:

9thmoon
March 21, 2006, 23:26
Around these parts, we prounounce that "skank".

Windustsearch
March 21, 2006, 23:32
Dang Smokie had just posted this when I started chopping fixins for tomorrows stew, now all of the sudden there 8 replies. Sheesh.

DYNOMIKE
March 21, 2006, 23:33
Well she may be a SKANK...
But most normal BOYZ would be hidin the Kleenex box after Mom and Dad go to Bed just thinkin about her..
Shit any normal red blooded youth would do anythng to tag that..

Before I get the crap rainin on me i don't approve of here behavior..


....Unless she would have been MY TEACHER....:devil:

chrsdwns
March 22, 2006, 00:14
This was not a case of forced rape it was a case of consensual sex with an underage minor.

This is very rare in the case of an older woman with a young boy and I am sure the only permant damage psychological damage and negative impact on his life the boy will suffer in the long term will be the realization that she is a very hard act to follow. In this regard he may be ruined for life:devil:

Unfortunally this kind of relationship is way, way too common for an older man and young girl and these relationships always tend to predatory, abusive, manipulative and totally destructive to the girl involved. Unwanted pregnancies are a major problem as well. The men are seldom prosecuted or face any consequences at all except in the most serious and extreme cases and even then they usually get a slap on the wrist - not 15 years in the slammer like this poor woman was going to get.

A double standard may exist but I have known quite a few women whose lives have been totally ruined before they even got started because of twisted older men who feel the need to hit on girls too young to have a drivers liscense.

I know of not one young guy in this circumstacne who has been negativley hurt although I may know of a few who were 'ruined for life' at an early age by a 'predatory' hottie who was a damn hard act to follow.:biggrin:

I don't mean to be flippant or minimize the seriousness of the circumstances or condone the behavior but the truth is that in a case like this with a young guy and an older woman the guy most often walks away a happy stud and the womans life is ruined.

With young girls and older men the girl ends up pregnant, abandoned, and a single mother who becomes permanant damaged goods before she is old enough to drive a car. Her life is ruined, her childhood is stolen and she is doomed to a life of poverty and lonelyness while she watches her friends move on with life and enjoy their youth. The guy skates and moves onto the next junior high school conquest. Very sick and very sad. The girl's baby usually is doomed to a dysfunctional life as well.:mad:

Regardless of the circumstances the woman or girl always seems to pay the price with a ruined life and the guy skates clean with a grin on his face. Thats the REAL double standard

At any rate in my mind justice was served and she has been punished enough. Miss LeFave's marrige is over( cheating on a spouse was the real crime here, a fact ignored by the press), her life is ruined and she will be paying off her legal bills for the rest of her life so she has been punished more than enough.

She has learned her lesson - don't mess around with under age boys. The boy has learned his lesson - when you have a good thing going keep your mouth shut.

vmtz
March 22, 2006, 00:18
Originally posted by chrsdwns
This was not a case of forced rape it was a case of consensual sex with an underage minor.

This is very rare in the case of an older woman with a young boy and I am sure the only permant damage psychological damage and negative impact on his life the boy will suffer in the long term will be the realization that she is a very hard act to follow. In this regard he may be ruined for life:devil:

Unfortunally this kind of relationship is way, way too common for an older man and young girl and these relationships always tend to predatory, abusive, manipulative and destructive to the girl involved. Unwanted pregnancies are a major problem as well. The men are seldom prosecuted or face any cosequences except in the most serious and extreme cases and even then they usually get a slap on the wrist - not 15 years in the slammer like this poor woman was going to get. I

A double standard may exist but I have known quite a women whose lives have been totally ruined before they even got started because of twisted older men who feel the need to hit on girls too young to have a drivers liscense.

I know of not one young guy in this circumstacne who has been negativley hurt although I may know of a few who were 'ruined for life' at an early age by a 'predatory' hottie who was a damn hard act to follow.:biggrin:

I don't mean to be flippant or minimize the seriousness of the circumstances or condone the behavior but the truth is that in a case like this with a young guy and an older woman the guy most often walks away a happy stud and the womans life is ruined.

With young girls and older men the girl ends up pregnant, abandoned, and a single mother who becomes permanant damaged goods before she is old enough to drive a car. Her life is ruined, her childhood is stolen and she is doomed to a life of poverty and lonelyness while she watches her friends move on with life and enjoy their youth. The guy skates and moves onto the next junior high school conquest. Very sick and very sad. The girl's baby usually is doomed to a dysfunctional life as well.:mad:

Regardless of the circumstances the woman or girl always seems to pay the price with a ruined life and the guy skates clean with a grin on his face. Thats the REAL double standard

At any rate in my mind justice was served and she has been punished enough. Miss LeFave's marrige is over( cheating on a spouse was the real crime here, a fact ignored by the press), her life is ruined and she will be paying off her legal bills for the rest of her life so she has been punished more than enough.

She has learned her lesson - don't mess around with under age boys. The boy has learned his lesson - when you have a good thing going keep your mouth shut.

I disagree. Having sex with children is wrong and really messes them up. It is not a badge of honour for a male. It is still rape. They are children and do not need to be exposed to such things.

Vince

Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
March 22, 2006, 00:38
Maybe the kid will end up so messed up that he decides to suck on a S&W, and then you just laugh about it all.

chrsdwns
March 22, 2006, 00:57
I agree totally that this is wrong on many different levels and is a crime that deserves punishment. I just feel 15 years was totally disproportionate and wrong. An ambitious, publicity seeking prosecuter overplayed his hand and sanity prevailed in this case. I have seen too many guys totally ruin a girls entire life along with the life of their unfortunate child and skate free to feel LeFave deserved the maximum penalty

I also agree it can in theory it can mess up a young guy's life but in practice the studly grin/slap on the back/legend in your own time scenario thing is the more common outcome. I speak from direct but limited experiance here. It really depends on the circumstances and in the LeFave case the media attention seems to be the most damaging factor for the guy.

For young girls (and young boys by the way) predatory relationships with older men are uniformly exploitive and destructive. They ruin the life of the child, steal their childhood and scar them for the rest of their lives

By the way, in England, 'Outrageous Queens demanded 15' so Blair and the British Parliament complied and lowered the age of consent to 15 so Gays could no longer be prosecuted for molesting young boys. The same is true in much of enlightened Europe. I think that is a crime as well.

The LeFave incident would not have even been an issue there.

spatin
March 22, 2006, 01:23
She should get the exact same punishment as a male who does the same thing to a female minor child. It is total bullshit that she should get off because she is a knockout georgeous blond (maybe she's a blond) female. This whole thing is crap. The woman should be serving some hard time and should have "sex offender" tattooed on her face. Talk about double standards.
If a young man, say 25 or so, would have consensual sex (i. e. non-violent) with a female around 14 or so (like this woman did, from a position of trust no less as their school teacher), the law would come down on him so hard he would be reeling from the blow for the rest of his life. The "kill all sex offender" moms would be after his ass for the rest of his life and for what.
It is a screwed up society we live in for sure. You never hear Bill O'Reilly saying anything about punishing her. But you sure hear him preaching about getting Jessica's Law passed in all 50 states.
Sidney

chrsdwns
March 22, 2006, 02:00
The sad fact of life is that in the real world the punishment men get for doing this same thing to a series of girls over an extended period of time is a slap on the wrist if they ever even get busted at all in the first place.

Older men hitting on girls in their early teens is an epidemic in the inner city Hispanic and African American communities and it is the primary reason we have a staggering percentage of out of wedlock babies being born to girls in their early teens. The number is something like 70% children in these communities are born to underage single moms. The vast majority of "fathers" are over the age of 20 and many are in their 30s and 40s. These guys are not even forced to take financial responsabilty for the children, much less go to jail or even get probation. They never even get arrested in the first place. If it's consensual the Cops feel they have much more serious things to do as long as the girl is not a preteen or young enough looking to make the circumstances outright child molestaion as opposed to consensual statatory rape. In the Hispanic community a girl comes of age at 15 anyway in their traditional culture..

In this case LaFave deserves a light jail sentence and lot of psychological help. She has already spent a good amount of time in jail so her sentence is to time already seved. The prosecutions 15 years is just insane and disproportunate to circumstances of the case.

K.O.A.M.
March 22, 2006, 06:38
Brad King, the elected State Attorney for the 5th Judicial Circuit, appears to have a policy of whenever a case may be difficult or unpopular, he dumps it. He had the Mayor of Orlando indicted by a grand jury for a technical violation of election law, and then dumped it when he decided "that there was no evil intent". As most of you know, a prosecutor controls a grand jury to a large degree, i.e., they NEVER would have indicted but for his urging. He makes a big show of going after adult bookstores and such in his mostly rural (but growing) district and hires prosecutors based on their religious beliefs and not their skill/previous legal track record.I know this personally. I was asked my opinion of someone, gave the most unequivocal condemnation, and they hired that person anyways. They later fired him and told me I was right (2 years later). He put his chief assistant up to take the flak on this one, which to me is garbage. I was displeased with Tampa giving a downward departure (going below the bottom end of the sentencing guidelines) for this woman, but I'm aghast at the apparent unwillingess to let the community render their judgement on her conduct.

RT
March 22, 2006, 08:23
First thanks to all the lawers who responded, and the other file members. yes DEB is HOT and i would HIT IT!!!!!but so was Brittney speres in her first video. if i would have been able to hit it. this would be typed to you from Fl. ST. Prison FSP:tongue: . like the old timers say you can look from afar but DON't touch. and she better have clothing on, or more jail time. i HAVE NEVER BEEN TO JAIL. and the only JUDGES i know i see at the court house, and at lunch~R a special to K.O.M.A. as it is in his area of FL~R:beer: :beer:

DYNOMIKE
March 22, 2006, 08:40
Originally posted by Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
Maybe the kid will end up so messed up that he decides to suck on a S&W, and then you just laugh about it all.

Ya know that is just wrong in soo many ways, Yet somehow pretty damn funny!!:devil: :rofl:


Vince sez:I disagree. Having sex with children is wrong and really messes them up. It is not a badge of honour for a male. It is still rape. They are children and do not need to be exposed to such things.

Having SEX with children "IS" Most certainly wrong.
But I do think taggin a hot teacher when most were 15 would have been a BADGE of Honor, and not something I would have complained about unless it was some sort of twisted event forced on the other party.
Kids having sex in middle school and even lower grades than that is becoming the norm. "NO" I do not condone that either, it is however a fact.

IMO there is a difference between a "FORCED" Act and a Consensual one and although this TEACHER/ADULT may have some mental issues she has suffered a lot through this act (and prolly rightfully so). I think other than prosecutor getting another stripe there really would have been little aaccomplished by here trial and incarceration.
IMO the Parents were smart to save the kid from the "MEDIA FRENZY" and let him continue being a young man. My guess is he will grow up as normal as you?
Well that may be a stretch, as normal as "MOST".. :devil: :biggrin:

DABTL
March 22, 2006, 09:01
No harm, no foul is usually the way I view 'victims' of sex crimes. There is a disconnect between real life and our consentual sex laws.

Some children engage in sex at an early age, others at a later age. All kids are involved in sex at some point. Making a law that says it is rape to have sex with a mature 15 year old is weird. We used to have promiscuity as a defense but the Republicans repealed all that here. If a male of female is sexually active at 15 why make it a prison offense for someone 18 to have sex with them?

If I had been that kid at 15 and my parents wanted to separate me from Ms. LaFave, there would have been a lot of screaming going on. If that kid was not banging her door down, as well as banging a lot more every day, something is wrong with him.

YMMV

0007
March 22, 2006, 09:16
So I guess DABTL has no problem with pedophiles?? (I'm reasonably sure that that's not true DABTL, but where should society draw the line as far as you are concerned, then?)
As for this case, what a load of Crap.
If 15 is OK, what's wrong with 12 or 10 or especially in a teacher/student scenerio...? NOT saying it doesn't happen, just saying that the FACT of it happening doesn't make it right. Of course if i's "consensual" it's OK, right? I suspect a reading of the laws regarding actions between those in positions of power and their subordinants would make that a tough road to hoe.

Ah, well, my kid's grown and I don't have to worry about this particular situation anymore, thank God.

xcpd69
March 22, 2006, 09:17
So, since some of you feel this is SO wrong, should they then prosecute the 15 year old "hottie" who "takes advantage" of her 15 year old boyfriend, in the same manner?

You'd try her as an adult if it was murder.

Yes, it's illegal. BUT it was consentual.

BUT find me a NORMAL heterosexual 15 year old guy that WOULDN'T do a willing female he won't get in trouble for and some he will.

Ever hear of "teen pregnancy?"

These "holier than thous" are either saints, homosexuals or hypocrites.

Finally, there IS a difference if the roles are reversed. Maybe only in perception, but that makes it nonetheless a difference.

BTW, the age of consent varies from state to state. Just north of me, in Kansas, it's 16. 16 seems to be the rule pretty much in most of the US. But it is lower in a large part of the world. Canada, for instance is 14, along with a lot of nations.

Age of Consent (http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

DABTL
March 22, 2006, 09:21
A few weeks ago here a man pleaded guilty to sexually molesting his eight year old daughter. His explanation of why he did it was that 'I am too good a Christian to hire a prostitute.' Some people are crazy, too.

People do all kinds of things. Some laws make sense and others have unintended consequences.

Your spin about pedophiles is well taken, however, it does not come close to real life.

I am not suggesting that ten year old inexperienced children are ripe for adult sexual attention.

xcpd69
March 22, 2006, 09:35
I'm only referring to teenagers, NOT little kids.. Specificaly consenting male15 yr olds.

DYNOMIKE
March 22, 2006, 09:38
I am not suggesting that ten year old inexperienced children are ripe for adult sexual attention.

Nor am I..
But, I know for a FACT when I was 15-16 Y/O the "ONLY" thing I thought about was getting my License to drive and gettin some girl to say "YES"!!

I agree that the point made about pedophiles is a valid one. And I would like to add that I think any person regarless of age or sex that preys on young children are sick FU***and should be dealt with in the swiftest & harshest manner.
But that does not seem to fit "this" particular scenario.

bykerhd
March 22, 2006, 09:55
She didn't quite get off without punishment.

this is from CNN.Com
In November, Lafave pleaded guilty in Hillsborough County court to two counts of lewd and lascivious behavior. She was sentenced in that case to three years under house arrest and seven years of probation, and was required to register as a sex offender.

The last set of charges that were just dropped were for one of the sexual encounters that allegedly occurred in Marion County, Florida.

She is a pretty messed up young lady who has so far lost her husband, career and part of her freedom. There will probably be a civil suit that goes after any money she may have or make. She probably won't even be able to make any money off her looks and story for at least three years, maybe the full seven. It may well be too late for any of it by then. I think she is screwed.

the gman
March 22, 2006, 10:29
IMHO, most of you are missing the POINT.:rolleyes: It is NOT about hot teacher bangs 15 year old; to me it's about person in a position of TRUST abuses that trust & does something she knows to be WRONG.:redface: We hold teachers to a higher standard than some rutting skank you can find in any low life bar. Just as we hold (or should) police officers, doctors, soldiers & judges to a higher standard.

We, as a society have chosen these ordinary people to assume a burden on our behalf; whether that be teaching, catching crooks or treating POW's in accordance with the Geneva Convention. They must & should be held accountable for their actions if they abuse that trust, they must be punished & be seen to be punished. That reflects the severity of the crime they have committed. Look, I don't give a $hit if the little scrote who was banging her is fine or not, HER abuse of trust is the key crime here.

If she had picked this kid up off the street, I'd have more sympathy for her. She didn't, she abused the trust of every parent who sent their kids to that school, the trust of her employer & that of the general public.

When one is in a position to be a great influence (for good or evil) in a person's life, one has to be responsible for their own actions. Phrases like integrity, loyalty, morality, & honesty are not to be discarded simply for personal sexual satisfaction, especially when it concerns children.

Sure, when I was 15, I too would have loved to be banging a hot 25 year old but the FACT remains that as a child, that is NOT my call. SHE was & is the adult; no woman, short of rape, can have sex without being a willing participant.

She KNEW what she was doing was wrong & continued to do so, regardless of the consequences. That some males get away with the same actions without punishment is NO argument for relaxing the statutes or for having pity for the manipulating, cunning, betrayer of trust. She broke the law, she did so willingly & without concern for anyone but herself.

Male & female abusers should be prosecuted wherever they are found, end of story. I realise that my values & beliefs may not be shared by all here but I can look at myself in the mirror at any time & feel good about me; YMMV.:biggrin:

Temp
March 22, 2006, 10:35
Originally posted by the gman
some rutting skank you can find in any low life bar

You say that like it's a bad thing,....

0007
March 22, 2006, 10:47
Gman +1

DABTL - If the authority figure tells the child that what they are doing is OK, then why would the child NOT believe that person? And crazy people also commit murder, but they are still murderers.
Two fifteen years old "kids" playing hide the sausage aren't my idea of a good thing, but there's a hell of a difference between that and 25 year old teacher jumping one of her(or his) students. HELL, I can remember when college profs weren't supposed to bonk their students because of possible problems. The sslow slide continues...

Cava3r4
March 22, 2006, 11:23
too bad she wasn't president.....then it would have been no problem.:eek:

More seriously now....I agree with GMan
Bob

spatin
March 22, 2006, 11:49
Originally posted by the gman
IMHO, most of you are missing the POINT.:rolleyes: It is NOT about hot teacher bangs 15 year old; to me it's about person in a position of TRUST abuses that trust & does something she knows to be WRONG.:redface: We hold teachers to a higher standard than some rutting skank you can find in any low life bar. Just as we hold (or should) police officers, doctors, soldiers & judges to a higher standard.

We, as a society have chosen these ordinary people to assume a burden on our behalf; whether that be teaching, catching crooks or treating POW's in accordance with the Geneva Convention. They must & should be held accountable for their actions if they abuse that trust, they must be punished & be seen to be punished. That reflects the severity of the crime they have committed. Look, I don't give a $hit if the little scrote who was banging her is fine or not, HER abuse of trust is the key crime here.

If she had picked this kid up off the street, I'd have more sympathy for her. She didn't, she abused the trust of every parent who sent their kids to that school, the trust of her employer & that of the general public.

When one is in a position to be a great influence (for good or evil) in a person's life, one has to be responsible for their own actions. Phrases like integrity, loyalty, morality, & honesty are not to be discarded simply for personal sexual satisfaction, especially when it concerns children.

Sure, when I was 15, I too would have loved to be banging a hot 25 year old but the FACT remains that as a child, that is NOT my call. SHE was & is the adult; no woman, short of rape, can have sex without being a willing participant.

She KNEW what she was doing was wrong & continued to do so, regardless of the consequences. That some males get away with the same actions without punishment is NO argument for relaxing the statutes or for having pity for the manipulating, cunning, betrayer of trust. She broke the law, she did so willingly & without concern for anyone but herself.

Male & female abusers should be prosecuted wherever they are found, end of story. I realise that my values & beliefs may not be shared by all here but I can look at myself in the mirror at any time & feel good about me; YMMV.:biggrin:

Here here! I fully concur with gman. The sex of the perpetrator should be irrelevant. She should be prosecuted. If not prosecuted, then there will certainly be more of the same. I can remember when growing up that we would hear about a male teacher who gets drawn and quartered for banging one or more of his female students, but we never would hear about a female teacher doing that or getting caught. That either means that the female teachers didn't do it (most highly unlikely) or that it was being covered up, which is more probable.

Sidney

gunseller
March 22, 2006, 14:09
Female teachers did do it, at least when I was in High School 30+ years ago. So did male teachers and there was only problems when the parents of the female student came into the picture. When I was at a midwestern land grant university ,grad school, one of the male professors married one of his female students between semisters and they had a child shortly there after. There were rules about professor and student relationships but nothing was done to the professor. When I teach for a privite university there are rules about professor and student relationships. There are reasons I would not cross the line. I do not want to lose my extra income and I would not want to face my wife. These are just two of the reasons. The no harm no foul idea has been around for many years just look at religious groups.
I do agree with gman.
Gunseller

9thmoon
March 22, 2006, 14:23
Originally posted by DYNOMIKE69
IMO there is a difference between a "FORCED" Act and a Consensual one and although this TEACHER/ADULT may have some mental issues she has

That's the whole point, Mike... a child can't give consent. Even when they think they know what they want, we as a society have made the decision to treat children up to age X (usually age 16) as if they do not have the ability to determine what is in their own best interests. That's why there's an age of consent; that's why there's an age of majority when one becomes legally responsible for oneself and can enter into contracts, etc.

This 14 year old boy is not MAN. He is not an adult. He may have fulfilled a fantasy, but every five year old girl I know thinks she wants a pony. Would it be good for every five year old girl to have a pony? Hell, no! The whole point is that we as a society have decided that he can't give consent.

If you disagree with the way it's set up, get the age of consent laws changed... don't just let criminals off the hook. It sets a BAD precedent.

9thmoon
March 22, 2006, 14:28
Originally posted by DABTL
A few weeks ago here a man pleaded guilty to sexually molesting his eight year old daughter. His explanation of why he did it was that 'I am too good a Christian to hire a prostitute.'

Incidentally, <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/21/charges.dropped/index.html">Mrs. LaFave is also a good christian.</a>

"I am a strong Christian woman," she said. "I believe that God has a path for me, and this was just a bump in the road."

She and Mary Kay have a special place waiting for them when they die. I feel warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

DYNOMIKE
March 22, 2006, 16:42
Originally posted by 9thmoon


That's the whole point, Mike... a child can't give consent. Even when they think they know what they want, we as a society have made the decision to treat children up to age X (usually age 16) as if they do not have the ability to determine what is in their own best interests. That's why there's an age of consent; that's why there's an age of majority when one becomes legally responsible for oneself and can enter into contracts, etc.

This 14 year old boy is not MAN. He is not an adult. He may have fulfilled a fantasy, but every five year old girl I know thinks she wants a pony. Would it be good for every five year old girl to have a pony? Hell, no! The whole point is that we as a society have decided that he can't give consent.

If you disagree with the way it's set up, get the age of consent laws changed... don't just let criminals off the hook. It sets a BAD precedent.

Point taken, and a good one as well as the Points Gman made.
Although not much of a difference I thought the Kid was 15? But still I see were you are coming from.
I would like to know if the Teacher has a "PAST" IE: Has she been known, or has she been involved in this type of activity before? Not as justification just as information. We do seem to consider a persons criminal history when we sentance them, and I WONDER if she has done this before.
I see a multitude of things "WRONG" with the picture here and certainly understand that a person in her position need be above reproach. That responsibility it seems she has failed.
Many, in fact none may agree but I do think the circumstances of this situation are "not the same" as a Man raping a Woman, or worse.
Granted this young man has not reached the age of "LEGAL" Consent but he most certainly is/was old enough to know right from wrong. This may not be his fault, but I don't think he is without some responsibility for what happened between them.

9thmoon
March 22, 2006, 16:52
Originally posted by DYNOMIKE69
Granted this young man has not reached the age of "LEGAL" Consent but he most certainly is/was old enough to know right from wrong. This may not be his fault, but I don't think he is without some responsibility for what happened between them.

Bearing responsibility... maybe. I don't know. The laws about age of consent are, in their essence, the State's testimony that this boy-child was NOT old enough to know right from wrong. You or I may disagree personally, but would we feel differently if it were our child? If were our daughter, and the predator was a male teacher? If there were a pregnancy resulting? If there were a fatal STD contracted? It's not for us to decide; it's a crime against the State. And that, the whole "victimless crime" thing, that, my friend, is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

DYNOMIKE
March 22, 2006, 17:16
Originally posted by 9thmoon


Bearing responsibility... maybe. I don't know. The laws about age of consent are, in their essence, the State's testimony that this boy-child was NOT old enough to know right from wrong. You or I may disagree personally, but would we feel differently if it were our child? If were our daughter, and the predator was a male teacher? If there were a pregnancy resulting? If there were a fatal STD contracted? It's not for us to decide; it's a crime against the State. And that, the whole "victimless crime" thing, that, my friend, is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

For "ME" anyway I think I can say we agree on some of the finer points. I guess I have a "PICTURE" of a "Sexual Deviant Predator" and she does not fit that profile.
The STATE sees it as a crime and so be it. Guess I am just caught up in the fact that I DO NOT SEE a scum bag pedophile, or rapist.
Were the sexes reversed I would feel totally different so I guess I am guilty of a double standard as well?

K.O.A.M.
March 22, 2006, 17:46
Originally posted by 9thmoon


Incidentally, <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/21/charges.dropped/index.html">Mrs. LaFave is also a good christian.</a>

"I am a strong Christian woman," she said. "I believe that God has a path for me, and this was just a bump in the road."

She and Mary Kay have a special place waiting for them when they die. I feel warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

I'm sure everyone has heard the joke about the ugly guy with a small crank who dies and is at the pearly gates and is introduced to a beautiful woman who he's told will satisfy him in every way. He asks St. Peter what he did to deserve this, and St. Peter replies "It's not what you did, it's what she did".

Do I think all sex crimes are identical? No. Do I think they should have considered this before charges were filed? Absolutely.

Falunga
March 22, 2006, 17:53
I just can't see the big deal about consent. This prurient American "culture" (sick) is messed up when it comes to sex and coming of age. We've pushed back the age of adulthood way beyond what our ancestors have thought. We still call men "kids" well after they are not teenagers anymore where 100 years ago a 15 or 16 year old would be a man -or a puss if he still hung around his momma.


In Wisconsin they will let a 12 year old boy drive a $240K combine down a public road. Oversized, overweight, a huge tank that could literally crush other vehicles if he/she didn't avoid them. But some think that a 15-year old little man who is all surging with the adult man hormones can't be allowed to decide when he is ready to bag a hottie who isn't forcing herself on him.

Give me a freaking break. WTF is wrong with you people. Pull that bible out of your ass and start using your brains for just a couple of clock cycles here.

Why do you think we have such gang problems in the USA? We force these young adults into a holding pattern for YEARS just putting off the time when they can stand up and start acting like adults. IF you never give them the chance to act like them they will miss the opportunity (especially if they come from troubled homes and social groups) and just go feral. High school should end at age 16. They should have the opportunity to go onto tech training and a job or go on to advanced learning of a liberal arts academy or something. Once they start working/learning and providing for themselves and given that opportunity then they should be treated like adults and given adult privilages. If they screw up then throw the book at them. But that goes for 25-year olds as well as 15 year olds...



Jim :fal: FALunga

Cava3r4
March 22, 2006, 18:06
They just had one in AZ recently.
The lady teacher is about 35 and is in prison.
She is MARRIED to her 16 year old (he apparently was 15) lover who is also the father of their child.
The state said she "must not have contact with him for two years".
They are married...... kind of a double standard here too don't you think.

Back in MN in the last 4 years or so ago (right before I moved out) there was bunch of these types of cases where 20-38 year old teachers were jumping their 13 to 15 year old lovers. One of them while out on bail even went over to the kids parents house.
DUH OH!

How would you like to be 13 and have some old bag about 38 jump your bones?
it could have lasting psychological problems.
Now...how would you like to be 15 years 364 days old and have the nice pretty 21 year old give you a hard ride??

Doesn't sound good to me either way....but hey...I'm 59 now so what do I know?

The other thing that kills me is how you guys latch onto immediately someone who professes to be a Christian and they screw up. hey.....ALL CHRISTIANS are sinners!!! at least the ones I know.!!! I'm a sinner too!! And every darned one of you guys are too whether you are Christians or not!!
Bob

Bob

spatin
March 22, 2006, 18:07
"I guess I have a "PICTURE" of a "Sexual Deviant Predator" and she does not fit that profile."

Well, in my opinion, that's part of the problem. SDPs don't fit a profile, but people think they do. So do prosecutors, news editors, and judges. Everyone thinks an SDP is a wiry, slimey looking, little old man with guilt written all over him, with downturned eyes because he can't look at a righteous person in the face. In truth, it could be a knockout like Deb Lafave, or it could be the hairdresser (male or female) who lives next door. It could be the kid on the high school football team, one never knows. In the show "Desperate Housewives", the producers took this subject very lightly when Gabriel was screwing the hell out of the 15 year old high school boy who took care of their lawn (and some other stuff). Because it was a woman offender, it was taken lightly. I'm sure the same producers would create a much darker picture if the offender were an adult male.

These people, especially the violent ones, are sick people. I'm sure I am in the minority, but these people don't need punishment, they need treatment. Just throwing them in jail won't do anything to change them, it will just take them off the streets. The problem with long jail sentences for all sex offenders, like the much publicized "Jessica's Law" (an abomination in my eyes) will put all sex offenders away for a long time, but it throws all sex offenders in the same pigeon hole. I happen to think that each case should be looked at individually, and then the offender should be punished or treated, or both, according to that case only. Just putting them in confinement for 25 years on first offense is probably a violation of the 8th amendment, but that remains to be seen.

Sidney

DABTL
March 22, 2006, 18:34
Originally posted by 0007
Gman +1

DABTL - If the authority figure tells the child that what they are doing is OK, then why would the child NOT believe that person? And crazy people also commit murder, but they are still murderers.
Two fifteen years old "kids" playing hide the sausage aren't my idea of a good thing, but there's a hell of a difference between that and 25 year old teacher jumping one of her(or his) students. HELL, I can remember when college profs weren't supposed to bonk their students because of possible problems. The sslow slide continues...

There are many problems in life. This is but one of them. I wonder if I could get her phone number? I mean, just to help and all that.:love:

vmtz
March 22, 2006, 18:39
Originally posted by spatin
"I guess I have a "PICTURE" of a "Sexual Deviant Predator" and she does not fit that profile."

Well, in my opinion, that's part of the problem. SDPs don't fit a profile, but people think they do. So do prosecutors, news editors, and judges. Everyone thinks an SDP is a wiry, slimey looking, little old man with guilt written all over him, with downturned eyes because he can't look at a righteous person in the face. In truth, it could be a knockout like Deb Lafave, or it could be the hairdresser (male or female) who lives next door. It could be the kid on the high school football team, one never knows. In the show "Desperate Housewives", the producers took this subject very likely when Gabriel was screwing the hell out of the 15 year old high school boy who took care of their lawn (and some other stuff). Because it was a woman offender, it was taken lightely. I'm sure the same producers would create a much darker picture if the offender were an adult male.

These people, especially the violent ones, are sick people. I'm sure I am in the minority, but these people don't need punishment, they need treatment. Just throwing them in jail won't do anything to change them, it will just take them off the streets. The problem with long jail sentences for all sex offenders, like the much publicized "Jessica's Law" (an abomination in my eyes) will put all sex offenders away for a long time, but it throws all sex offenders in the same pigeon hole. I happen to think that each case should be looked at individually, and then the offender should be punished or treated, or both, according to that case only. Just putting them in confinement for 25 years on first offense is probably a violation of the 8th amendment, but that remains to be seen.

Sidney

That really addresses much of the current sentencing guide lines. The through the book at them attitude does not allow those who know what is going on to make the correct decsions.

I am not saying that people should not be punished, but their cases should be seen in relation to their specfic facts.

Vince

DYNOMIKE
March 22, 2006, 18:53
Originally posted by vmtz


I am not saying that people should not be punished, but their cases should be seen in relation to their specfic facts.

Vince

I must agree..:eek:

J. Armstrong
March 22, 2006, 20:37
Bill, Keep this up and you may convert me to a democrat.

Prolly take two lifetimes, though :biggrin:

I personally am not prepared to condemn or condone - all the info I have has been courtesy the media - the same folks all of you ( and I , as well,:sad: ) condemn for not getting their shit straight on anything firearms related. I guess if the media came down on some FAL owner who mistakenly stuck a noncompliant mag in his postban rifle and ended up on a page in the BATFE honor roll, we'd have people here applauding. After all, that is a "crime" as well.

Sorry, folks, I don't dismiss the POTENTIAL seriousness of the alleged crime, but I live in the real world. In that world the media isn't the executioner.

Cava3r4
March 23, 2006, 08:53
There are many problems in life. This is but one of them. I wonder if I could get her phone number? I mean, just to help and all that.

Not a chance Bill. You're just too darned OLD!!
You need to be under 16 and have a constant woody that shoots like a machine gun
Bob

KEMOSABE
March 23, 2006, 10:00
By all means, let's keep political correctness alive, lock the bitch up, for a non-crime. A non-crime in which the "victim" would be all to happy to be victimized over and over again (as would we all). Let's throw somebody dangerous out of jail to make room for this public enemy. Jeez fellas, we're talking about a piece of pussy here, at 14 the boy can handle it phsically and mentally. At 14, he's still a boy, and can be taken advantage of, but the only trouble he'll have with this later in life, is finding something that hot again. I mean, by god, some of you guys sound like women.

vmtz
March 23, 2006, 12:33
Originally posted by KEMOSABE
By all means, let's keep political correctness alive, lock the bitch up, for a non-crime. A non-crime in which the "victim" would be all to happy to be victimized over and over again (as would we all). Let's throw somebody dangerous out of jail to make room for this public enemy. Jeez fellas, we're talking about a piece of pussy here, at 14 the boy can handle it phsically and mentally. At 14, he's still a boy, and can be taken advantage of, but the only trouble he'll have with this later in life, is finding something that hot again. I mean, by god, some of you guys sound like women.

So by your rational it would be ok for an old guy to sleep with your 14 year old daughter?

They are children, get it through your head. It is wrong.

Vince

KEMOSABE
March 23, 2006, 13:58
Originally posted by vmtz


So by your rational it would be ok for an old guy to sleep with your 14 year old daughter?

They are children, get it through your head. It is wrong.

Vince

No, that's not my rational. And yes, it is wrong. Give her some community work time.
What I'm saying is, men and women are different, especially about sexuality and emotion. There is a double standard, and ignoring that only impedes progress. Trying to say this is the same as an old man and a young girl is just bullshit. That all started with the feminist movement and fueled by the media. Maybe in a perfect world it might hold up. But to buy into that foolishness only means you live in a world where logic is based on what feels good, and science is ignored.

Hope this helps.

9thmoon
March 23, 2006, 15:08
Originally posted by KEMOSABE
By all means, let's keep political correctness alive, lock the bitch up, for a non-crime. A non-crime in which the "victim" would be all to happy to be victimized over and over again (as would we all).

Speak for yourself... I wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole with a fifteen foot extension.

Let's throw somebody dangerous out of jail to make room for this public enemy. Jeez fellas, we're talking about a piece of pussy here, at 14 the boy can handle it phsically and mentally. At 14, he's still a boy, and can be taken advantage of, but the only trouble he'll have with this later in life, is finding something that hot again. I mean, by god, some of you guys sound like women.

Yeah, and what, exactly, is your problem with women?

Is there some reason why it's okay for a woman to be a criminal?
This double-standard thing works both ways, believe it or not.

G21A
March 23, 2006, 15:27
Originally posted by DABTL


There are many problems in life. This is but one of them. I wonder if I could get her phone number? I mean, just to help and all that.:love:
Bill, that's NOT what they meant when they said her lawyer helped her get off!!!
:bigangel:

the gman
March 23, 2006, 15:41
KEMOSABE: last time I checked, I thought the Declaration of Independence stated that

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....."

So what part of that most important document makes a distinction between the acts of men & women?:?

Moreover, the "governed" have given their consent to punish men & women equally for the same crime, I believe that's the very definition of justice, no?;)

I refer you to my previous post wherein I espoused the point of view that it is not so much a question of harm to the child (& whether some like it or not, he is legally a child) but that she knowingly & willingly crossed the barriers placed upon sexual conduct, & did so repeatedly & with 'malice aforethought'. In doing so, she betrayed the very great trust placed in her by the community et al.

Too many of you are thinking with your appendages rather than your minds. Maybe you wish to take the different standards for men & women to it's ultimate limit & introduce Sharia law here? Would it make you happy that a husband could have his wife stoned to death for adultery but escape scot free? How about she has no right to divorce unless he agrees?:rolleyes:

All are equal under the law, like it or not. Sentencing is where the rubber meets the road.

Anyway, what the hell gives all of you the idea that she's a hot lay??:? Just because she looks good doesn't mean she's good in bed, AMHIK....:eek: ;) Don't put your fantasies on display here, it reveals more of your character than you realise.........:p :devil:

DABTL
March 23, 2006, 15:47
Originally posted by G21A

Bill, that's NOT what they meant when they said her lawyer helped her get off!!!
:bigangel:

Damn! I was already booking a moving van to Florida.:cry:

J. Armstrong
March 23, 2006, 16:58
I just realized I'm heading to Fla on vacation tomorrow :eek: :biggrin:

KEMOSABE
March 23, 2006, 18:10
gman, thanks for the time and thought you put into your post, and I agree with much of it. Refer to my second post where I said she was wrong and deserved community service.

I'm not argueing whether the deed was right or wrong. I'm just saying "what harm was done". I understand that we are all supposed to be treated equally, but we aren't. If the Govt. says she's a pedaphile and she should be tried the same as a man, fine, but then turn around and prohibit gays from marrying based on sex is wrong. What's it going to be, discriminate in one area and not another?

I believe punishment should be in relation to the reprecushions of the crime. In this case it's a non story, I don't think there was any harm done to the boy. She has lost her job and her marriage. I don't view her as a menace to society. I don't think we are better off with her locked up. I think men who molest children should get the death penalty. I view the sex's to be different, and should be treated so. How to do that, and "treat all men equally," I don't have a clue.

the gman
March 23, 2006, 20:46
Kemosabe, thanks for taking my comments in the spirit they were intended.:angel:

To address this particular problem: Sadly, as a society, we have limited power to regulate the behaviour of citizens. To legislate for each & every circumstance that *could* possibly occur would be impossible. Ergo, we have to try to legislate to encompass those acts which we, the people, decide are unacceptable to the majority of the population.

As a result, there are some people who, whilst charged with similar offences, are patently 'less guilty' than others charged with those offences. As I said, that's why we have sentencing guidelines.

Unfortunately, to me, the crucial question is not whether the boy in question suffered harm but did the teacher, knowingly & repeatedly break the law? Yes, she did. In this respect, she is NO different, at least IMHO, to any other lawbreaker, be they burgular or car thief. She must expect to face the consequences of her actions & whatever punishment the legal system decides is adequate & appropiate.

I find her actions to be particularly reprehensible because she was in a position of trust & should have been able to control her feelings, actions & desires. That she was unable to do so implies that she is a person with low moral standards, to whom the words honour, loyalty, itegrity & fidelity mean nothing. As such, she places herself alongside the more horrendous of child molestors as they have a similar lack of control over their baser instincts.

Yes, usually they are guilty of far more serious abuse but the principle is still the same.

As regards discrimination: that happens every day. I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of it but just try to set up an organisation called the "White Police Officers Association" or the "Caucasian Businessman's Group" & see how much trouble that causes. Discrimination is all around us but under the law, we cannot be seen to treat women differently to men.

To do so is to open Pandora's Box & allow women who sexually abuse male children to claim they don't cause long term harm because 'he enjoyed it'. Perhaps this young man did in fact enjoy himself but irregardless, he was taken advantage off by someone who should & did know better.

She decided for her own sexual & venal reasons that the law should not apply to her & now she should & must IMHO, face the music. I certainly don't advocate flogging her in the public square but those who flout the laws that are there to protect ALL our children, must be punished.

shootist87122
March 23, 2006, 21:10
Girls at the low end of their teenage years need a lot more protection and are subject to a lot more social, mental and physical degradation than a boy of the same age. That's not discrimination unless you happen to believe in women's lib.

The female teacher in this case is pretty screwed up, but is not much of a threat to beating up some guy and raping them at knifepoint.

vmtz
March 23, 2006, 23:07
Originally posted by KEMOSABE


No, that's not my rational. And yes, it is wrong. Give her some community work time.
What I'm saying is, men and women are different, especially about sexuality and emotion. There is a double standard, and ignoring that only impedes progress. Trying to say this is the same as an old man and a young girl is just bullshit. That all started with the feminist movement and fueled by the media. Maybe in a perfect world it might hold up. But to buy into that foolishness only means you live in a world where logic is based on what feels good, and science is ignored.

Hope this helps.

Adults having sex with children messes the children up. Only a fool would think that sexualizing a child is ok.

Give her jail time. Community service, it is not a speeding ticket.

Vince

vmtz
March 23, 2006, 23:12
Originally posted by shootist87122
Girls at the low end of their teenage years need a lot more protection and are subject to a lot more social, mental and physical degradation than a boy of the same age. That's not discrimination unless you happen to believe in women's lib.

The female teacher in this case is pretty screwed up, but is not much of a threat to beating up some guy and raping them at knifepoint.

That type of rape is pretty rare. Most women are raped by someone they know.

Vince

KEMOSABE
March 23, 2006, 23:42
Originally posted by vmtz


Adults having sex with children messes the children up. Only a fool would think that sexualizing a child is ok.



Vince

vmtz, you're absolutely right. It's just that I don't think a 14 year old boy is a child. We are all a product of our life experiences, my sexual experiences at 14 didn't mess me up. Of course, that begs the question, what did?

KEMOSABE
March 24, 2006, 01:08
gman, thanks for bearing with me. Your argument, while so eloquently stated and being sound in principal, lacks only one thing, reality.

If you'll allow me the liberty to put the gist of your argument into just a few words. If the world, and our laws were perfect, and if the consequences of our actions, affected men and women equally, then we should all be treated equally under the law.

My argument is, that's not valid. We are not treated equally under the law. Divorce, community property, child support, aren't applied equally. The rich and the poor receive different justice, ala O.J. Simpson, Kolbe Bryant, Robert Blake. But that is beside the point, men and women shouldn't be treated equally because we are fundamentally different. To analogize this with burglary or car theft is not comparing apples to apples. The result of a burglary is the same wheather it happens to a man or woman, there is an absence of property. When a sexual act occurs, the impact on a man is much different than that of a woman.

What's the remedy? I don't know if you have suggested sentencing guidlines or giving a judge latitude in sentencing, either way, that is a double edge sword. There have been too many child molesters let out or given a light sentence. In a perfect world, a judge, in sentencing, could apply real justice, but judges aren't perfect.

Your point is well taken that she was in a position of trust. And I would go so far as to say that a person in a position of trust or authority who commits a crime abusing that trust should receive twice the penalty of a "regular" person. Is that discrimination?

I just simply think, that not only the law, but also society, needs to make allowances in regards to the treatment of men and women charged with sexual crimes. There is no denying that men and women are different, and we should be treated differently under the law. Call a spade a spade, and stop all this politically correct nonsense that is a "feel good" farce that has been thrust upon us.

quicksand
March 24, 2006, 04:23
He was 14 not 10, think back to how you thought at 14. I was trying to get laid every chance I got, I just never got the chance. 14 year olds are intelligent enough to decide if the want to get laid or not. This was a victimless crime and its good that she is going free. She lost her job and will never teach again and thats punishment enough.

9thmoon
March 24, 2006, 14:08
Originally posted by KEMOSABE
There is no denying that men and women are different, and we should be treated differently under the law.

I'm not trying to thrust anything upon anyone; I'm trying to figure out where this belief comes from, and, more importantly, why your belief that men and women are different somehow outranks my belief that they are not. I've got the law on my side. You've got tradition on yours. This is a matter of law. This woman broke the law.

Saying that we should be treated differently under the law is as anti-American as you can get. All men are created equal. Being "PC" is not always a bad thing. For once, the PC Police got something right, when they realized that all people need to be treated equally under law, and you want to reject it just because it's a popular notion? Is that really your basis for your belief?

Temp
March 24, 2006, 14:27
Damn,....... it's been a long time since I was 14,..... but as I recall, nookie was tough to come by at that age.

Now, the women have loosened up but the law has cracked down.

What's a 14 year old boy to do?

shootist87122
March 24, 2006, 20:29
Originally posted by 9thmoon


I'm not trying to thrust anything upon anyone; I'm trying to figure out where this belief comes from, and, more importantly, why your belief that men and women are different somehow outranks my belief that they are not. I've got the law on my side. You've got tradition on yours. This is a matter of law. This woman broke the law.

Saying that we should be treated differently under the law is as anti-American as you can get. All men are created equal. Being "PC" is not always a bad thing. For once, the PC Police got something right, when they realized that all people need to be treated equally under law, and you want to reject it just because it's a popular notion? Is that really your basis for your belief?

OK. How do you intend to go after her for criminal sexual penetration since she has no penis? Last time I checked, women and men were indeed "different". A crime yes, just not the same crime when things are reversed.

trucksurfer
March 24, 2006, 21:31
What I want to know about all of this is where the F$&K hot teachers who want to screw were when I was 14? Where is she now, I might be able to get away with it.....Hell my wife even thinks this chick is hot!

If I was him I'd kick my cousins ass for telling on the whole thing. Damn kid was just jealous because he wasn't getting any, she should have blown him to keep it all quiet.

spatin
March 25, 2006, 00:43
I agree with you 9th moon. Wrong is wrong, and this woman should receive the same punishment that a man would receive. If a man had committed that crime of child rape on a 14 year old girl, the press and the courts would have drawn and quartered him. She should get the same. It is not fair to society to treat men and women differently. I realize that it happens, because I see a lot of divorce in my line of work, but times are changing.
Sidney

Originally posted by 9thmoon


I'm not trying to thrust anything upon anyone; I'm trying to figure out where this belief comes from, and, more importantly, why your belief that men and women are different somehow outranks my belief that they are not. I've got the law on my side. You've got tradition on yours. This is a matter of law. This woman broke the law.

Saying that we should be treated differently under the law is as anti-American as you can get. All men are created equal. Being "PC" is not always a bad thing. For once, the PC Police got something right, when they realized that all people need to be treated equally under law, and you want to reject it just because it's a popular notion? Is that really your basis for your belief?

FALPhil
March 25, 2006, 08:11
Originally posted by chrsdwns
This is very rare in the case of an older woman with a young boy and I am sure the only permant damage psychological damage and negative impact on his life the boy will suffer in the long term will be the realization that she is a very hard act to follow. In this regard he may be ruined for life:devil:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The damage is long-lasting, if not permanent, and so pernicious that the victim cannot see it for what it really is. 99% of the time, adults who abuse children sexually were themselves sexually abused as children, so there is a tremendous cost to society. Child sexual abuse is an evil, sick, and twisted crime.

Here is a list of female teachers who have been caught recently. It does not include other professions or bored housewives, of which there are many, many more. This is not a rare crime.

Adrianne Hockett: Accused of having sex with a 16-year-old special-needs student in a Houston apartment she rented for the get-togethers. The boy has testified the pair would "have sex, drink beer and smoke weed."

Amber Jennings, 31: Though Jennings was initially charged with having sex with a 16-year-old, the counts against the Sturbridge, Mass., woman were reduced to a single charge of disseminating harmful materials to a minor. She reportedly admitted e-mailing naked photos of herself to a former student.

Amber Marshall, 23: Northwest Indiana woman allegedly had sexual contact, including intercourse, with several students at Hebron High School, and turned herself into authorities, telling police she knew what she did was illegal.

Amira Sa'Si, 30: Clayton County, Ga., woman remarked she didn't think her relationship was inappropriate based on her Internet research, learning the Peach State's age of consent is 16.

Amy Gail Lilley, 36: Inverness, Fla., woman and softball coach at Lecanto High School charged with a lesbian relationship with a 15-year-old girl. She received no prison time, being sentenced to two years of house arrest and eight more years of probation.

Angela Comer, 26: Middle-school teacher from Tompkinsville, Ky., fled with her alleged lover, her 14-year-old male student, before being tracked down in Mexico where she reportedly planned to marry the boy. She was indicted for illegal sex acts with a minor and returned to Kentucky. Charges include felony custodial interference, two counts of third-degree sodomy and four counts of unlawful transaction with a minor relating to sexual acts.

Angela Stellwag, 24: Delran, N.J., woman accused of having sex in her apartment with a 14-year-old boy she met in school. She was charged with sexual assault for activity that allegedly took place in August 2004.

Beth Raymond, 31: Private-school employee from Pownal, Maine, charged with risk of injury to a minor and second-degree sexual assault of a juvenile male at Eagle Hill School in Greenwich, Conn.

Bethany Sherrill, 24: Daughter-in-law of school-board president charged with molesting a 15-year-old middle-school student. Reports state Sherill allegedly had oral sex with the boy and sent him coded text messages. She resigned her position at Jefferson Elementary School in Farmington, Mo.

Cameo Patch, 29: Substitute teacher at Tooele High School in Tooele, Utah, arrested for allegedly performing oral sex on a 17-year-old male student. The sexual activity was allegedly consensual, and reportedly took place off school grounds after the pair had exchanged phone numbers in a restaurant.

Carol Flannigan, 50: Boca Raton, Fla., music teacher reportedly slept with 11-year-old former student, and also had a simultaneous sexual relationship with the boy's father. In a deposition, the boy's father said he had the same sort of sexual relationship with Flannigan that ex-President Bill Clinton had with Monica Lewinsky. In February 2006, Flannigan was sentenced to five years prison as part of a plea deal.

Cathy Heminghaus, 46: Special-education teacher from Ferguson, Mo., charged with statutory sodomy involving at least three of her students at Ferguson Middle School. She reportedly told friends she had performed oral sex on the children on several occasions.

Celeste Emerick, 32: Police in Huber Heights, Ohio, say the Wayne High School teacher hosted a party where students were shown pornography. Prosecutors charged her with one count of sexual battery, a felony in Ohio.

Christina Gallagher, 26: Jersey City, N.J., woman ordered to pay more than $1,000 in fines, sentenced to a lifetime registration as a convicted sex offender and ordered to attend therapy for having sex with a 17-year-old student in late 2004. The former Rahway High School instructor was banned from teaching and seeing the student with whom she had sex.

Christine Duda, 39: Teacher at the Normandy Alternative School in St. Louis County, Mo., allegedly took a 16-year-old male student to her home for sex in December 2005. She was charged with two counts of felony statutory rape and fired by the school district.

Christine Scarlett, 36: English teacher at Strongsville High School in Ohio began a sexual relationship with the 17-year-old captain of the football team, Steven Bradigan, in November 2002 and eventually gave birth to Bradigan's son. Scarlett was fired from her teaching job, but insists nothing improper happened during the time she was Bradigan's teacher. She was never charged with any criminal wrongdoing.

Deanna Bobo, 37: Special-education teacher at Raymond E. Wells Junior High School in Greenwood, Ark., allegedly had sex twice with a 14-year-old boy in his own bed while his parents were not home. She has denied the charge, and has since been charged with assaulting a second boy.

Diane DeMartini-Scully, 45: Mattituck, N.Y., woman was the school psychologist at East Hampton Middle School on Long Island when she was accused of having sex with the 16-year-old boyfriend of her own 13-year-old daughter. She allegedly had intercourse and oral sex with the boy on a number of occasions in May 2005 in her home and car. She was arrested after allegedly secretly visiting her young paramour at his new home in North Carolina.

Donna Carr Galloway, 33: Married mother of two found naked in a car with a 17-year-old student.

Elisa Kawasaki, 25: Biology teacher from Fresno, Calif., area, pleaded no contest to sex with a teen boy, and prosecutors dropped four other counts.

Elizabeth Miklosovic, 36: Grand Rapids, Mich., teacher at South Haven's Baseline Middle School pleaded no contest to sexually assaulting a 14-year-old female student she "married" in a pagan ritual in June 2004. Miklosovic is also accused of touching the girl's genitals while camping in public parks.

Elizabeth Stow, 26: Tulare Western High School teacher from Fresno, Calif., area convicted of having sex with three of her students was sentenced to nine years, but the judge suspended that sentence and gave her one year, followed by five years of probation. She was also ordered to register as a sex offender.

Ellen Garfield, 43: Former student at Solomon Schecter School in Newton, Mass., said his music teacher took him into an empty classroom where she worked, partially disrobed, and coaxed him into having sex with her in 1998. Garfield was acquitted of all charges in September 2005.

Emily Morris, 28: Teacher at Leeds High School in St. Clair County, Ala., faced a possible 20-year sentence, but received one year in jail for having consensual sex with a 15-year-old student.

Erica Rutters, 29: Teacher at Oxford Christian Academy in New Oxford, Pa., allegedly wrote erotic messages to a 16-year-old student and had sexual intercourse with him four times in her apartment.

Georgianne Harrell, 24: Teacher at Holley Elementary School in Sylvester, Ga., charged with performing oral sex on a 9-year-old boy, allowing students to gaze down her blouse and slashing her wrists with glass in front of her students. She pleaded not guilty.

Gwen Ann Cardozo, 33: Teacher at Wasson High School in Colorado Springs, Colo., accused of having sex with a 17-year-old male student. Police charged her with sexual assault on a child by one in a position of trust, and Cardozo resigned her position in March 2005.

Heather Ingram, 30: Mathematics, science and business teacher at Chatelech Secondary School in Sechelt, British Columbia, had sex with a 17-year-old student. The relationship cost Ingram her job and reportedly led to the breakup of her 12-year common-law marriage to a man four years her senior.

Jacquelyn Faith Garrison, 19: Substitute teacher at South Central High School in Winterville, N.C., was indicted in January 2006 on charges she was having an improper relationship with a 15-year-old student. The case involves some 50 phone calls and text messages exchanged between Garrison and the boy, who reportedly became uncomfortable when things of a sexual nature came up.

Janelle Marie Bird, 24: Accused of having a two-year affair with a 15-year-old student from East Hill Christian School, in Pensacola, Fla. She was charged with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery and two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor.

Jaymee Wallace, 28: Basketball coach in Tampa, Fla., charged with having an 18-month lesbian relationship with a student. Authorities say the student, who was 15 when she met Wallace, voluntarily had sex with the coach more than 50 times, in a parking lot at Busch Gardens and often at Wallace's own apartment while a fellow classmate was in an adjacent room. According to the police report, the sexual relationship reportedly began in early 2003, after the student received a note from Wallace saying she "found her attractive and wanted to know if she felt the same way."

Joan Marie Sladky, 28: Redwood City, Calif., woman sentenced to six months in county jail for having sex with a 16-year-old student after pleading no contest to four counts of unlawful sexual intercourse, oral copulation and penetration with a foreign object. The Spanish teacher's relationship with the boy spanned six months, as she reportedly had sex with him once at his home and three times at her residence, which was on the property of the private Baptist church and school where she taught.

Katherine Tew, 30: Married English teacher from Greenville, N.C., arrested for having sex with a 17-year-old boy. She taught at South Central High School in Winterville, N.C., and was convicted of taking indecent liberties with a child, but found not guilty of the more serious sex charge. She was not given prison time, and lost her teaching license for at least two years.

Kathy White, 39: Teacher at Lumberton High School in Lumberton, Texas, charged with having sex with a 17-year-old student. The victim, Michael Ferguson, alleges: "She just started grabbing me and hormones were on and it just happened." Ferguson provided KBTV-TV with an e-mail allegedly sent by White, in which the teacher told him, "I get these cravings for YOU and that's not NORMAL! If I had it my way, I'd do you once a week just because it's good."

Kelly Lynn Dalecki, 28: Elementary-school teacher from St. Augustine, Fla., pleaded no contest to charges she had sex with a 13-year-old boy. The boy's parents reportedly found more than 50 sexually explicit e-mails and pornographic pictures allegedly sent by Dalecki on his computer.

Kristen Margrif, 27: Mayville, Mich., teacher accused of having sex with a 16-year-old male student in her car or at his summer workplace in June and July 2005.

Kristi Dance Oakes, 32: Teacher allegedly had sex with a 16-year-old boy who was in her biology class the previous year. Oakes resigned from her post at Seymour High School in Sevierville, Tenn., and reportedly lost her home and even the job she took at a grocery store after resigning from the school system because of the charges.

Lakina Stutts, 40: School-bus driver admitted to cops she had sex with a 14-year-old student in her home and in a car outside the boy's home.

Laura-Anne Brownlee, 26: Former music mistress at a top private school in Belfast, N. Ireland, was sentenced on six charges of indecently assaulting a 15-year-old boy.

Laura Lynn Findlay, 30: Band teacher at Ricker Middle School in Buena Vista Township, Mich., charged with having sex with at least 5 students, one as young as 14.

Lynn Saunders, 38: A former basketball star at the College of Staten Island, the gym teacher at St. Paul's School in New Brighton, N.Y., was arrested in March 2005 for allegedly molesting a 12-year-old girl whose family she had befriended. Saunders admitted to touching the girl's breasts and genital area on several dates in February 2005. She received no jail time, only probation and registration as a sex offender. The family is now suing Saunders and the Archdiocese of New York, claiming the girl became suicidal and still suffers from "severe emotional shock, trauma, embarrassment, anxiety and other psychological injuries."

Margaret De Barraicua, 30: Sacramento, Calif., area woman arrested after police found her having sex with a 16-year-old male student in her car while the woman's toddler was strapped into a seat in the back. She pleaded guilty to four felony counts of statutory rape and was sentenced a year in jail and five years formal probation.

Maria Saco, 28: Math teacher at Lincoln Middle School in Passaic, N.J., sentenced in 2005 to a year in jail for an intimate relationship with a teen student who was 14 when they first met. Saco reportedly gave the boy a key to her apartment.

Mary Kay Letourneau, 34: Des Moines, Wash., teacher did prison time after having sex with a sixth-grade student, Vili Fualaau, in 1996 and eventually had two children by him. She originally had Fualaau, in her second-grade class at Shorewood Elementary School in Burien, Wash. The couple has since married.

Melissa Michelle Deel, 32: Bristol, Tenn., teacher at Virginia Middle School pleaded guilty to crossing the state line into Virginia to have oral sex with a 13-year-old male student. As part of her plea agreement, Deel agreed never to profit from the crime, as well as have no contact with the boy and his family without court permission.

Michelle Kush, 29: Substitute teacher at Boone County High School in Florence, Ky., allegedly had sex with a 15-year-old boy several times during summer break. She was charged with two counts of rape and one sodomy count.

Nicola Prentice, 22: British woman from Sheffield, England, given a 12-month suspended jail sentence after she seduced a 16-year-old student and began a 19-month affair.

Nicole Andrea Barnhart, 35: Highlands Ranch, Colo., woman reportedly told police she loves the 16-year-old boy with whom she was having sex. A teacher at Ponderosa High School, she pleaded guilty to felony sexual assault on a child, resulting in a two-year prison sentence and a minimum of 10 years in a sex-offender probation program.

Nicole Long, 29: English teacher at Ayersville High School in Ohio resigned her teaching post after being accused of raping a 17-year-old boy. She pleaded guilty in January 2005 to a charge of sexual battery, and was sentenced in March to three months in jail.

Nicole Pomerleau, 31: English teacher at Olympic High School in Charlotte, N.C., arrested in March 2004 for allegedly having a sexual relationship with her 16-year-old student. The age of consent in North Carolina is 16, but teachers having sex with students is an exception to the law.

Pamela Smart, 22: Media-services director at Winnacunnet High School in Hampton, N.H., had convinced her 15-year-old lover to murder her husband. She was arrested in 1993. The Nicole Kidman film "To Die For" is based on her story.

Pamela Turner, 27: Former model and beauty-pageant contestant also taught at Centertown Elementary School in McMinnville, Tenn. She was arrested in February 2005 for allegedly having a three-month sexual relationship with a 13-year-old boy. She resigned her teaching position and was charged with 15 counts of sexual battery and 13 counts of statutory rape.

Rachelle Vantucci, 32: Ex-substitute teacher from Geneseo, N.Y., admitted having sex with a 16-year-old boy she met at a local riding stable. After pleading guilty, Vantucci agreed to surrender her teaching license and register as a sex offender.

Rebecca Boicelli, 33: Redwood City, Calif., woman gave birth to a baby last year and DNA test results gave prosecutors enough evidence to prove the father is Boicelli's former student, who was 16 at the time of conception.

Rhianna Ellis, 24: Social-studies teacher at the High School for Health Professions and Human Services in Manhattan, N.Y., allegedly began a 10-month sexual relationship with an 17-year-old player on the school's basketball team, and reportedly gave birth to his baby. The teen boy even introduced Ellis to his parents, never indicating she was his teacher.

Robin Gialanella, 26: Teacher at Silver Bay Elementary School in Toms River, N.J., engaged in kissing, and inappropriate conduct and conversations with two sixth-grade boys, ages 11 and 12, in 2003 and 2004. She was sentenced to 364 days in jail with psychotherapy, must register as a sex offender, will be under lifetime supervision and must surrender her New Jersey teaching certificate.

Robin Winkis, 29: English teacher at Central York High School in York, Pa., allegedly had sex with a 17-year-old boy after giving him alcohol. Authorties accuse her of five alleged sex acts during October and November 2005.

Samantha Solomon, 29: Guidance counselor at the High School for Health Professions and Human Services in Manhattan, N.Y. was fired after school bosses learned she was having sex with a teenage boy. She denies the allegations, attributing them to rumors gone wild.

Sandra "Beth" Geisel, 42: English teacher at Christian Brothers Academy, an all-boys school in Albany, N.Y., allegedly had sex three times with a 16-year-old male student in May 2005, including once on school grounds in the football stadium's press box. Originally indicted in September for three counts of third degree rape, she pleaded guilty to a single count of rape and was sentenced to six months in jail, and ranked as a Level 1 sex offender, the lowest risk.

Shelley Allen, 35: Teacher's aide from Cherokee County, Texas, was arrested in June 2005. Allen was charged with sexual assault of a child and faces a possible 20 years behind bars.

Shelley White, 24: Geography teacher in Britain had been engaged to be married before she kissed a 15-year-old student on at least three occasions. She avoided jail, but received 12 months community service.

Sherry Brians, 41: Middle-school language-arts instructor in Buttonwillow, Calif., originally arrested in January 2006 on suspicion of engaging in lewd acts with a 12-year-old male student, a felony that involves sexual contact. She pleaded not guilty to two counts of annoying or molesting a child under 18.

Stephanie Burleson: Volleyball coach and teacher at Floresville High School in Texas six years ago, pleaded guilty to all charges for molesting a 16-year-old female student. She was sentenced to 10 years probation, and required to register as a sex offender.

Susan Eble, 35: Former teacher's aide is accused of having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy.

Tara Lynn Crisp, 29: Police allege she had sex with a student at least three times beginning when he was 14.

Toni Lynn Woods, 37: Middle-school teacher in Braxton County, W.Va., confessed to having sexual intercourse with three juveniles a total of four times and oral sex with one of those juveniles and another juvenile a total of four times. She resigned and surrendered her teaching certificate.

Traci Tapp, 28: Gym teacher at Hammonton High School in New Jersey accused of sexual contact with three male students, including having sex in her home multiple times in one night with a 16-year-old. In January 2006, she avoided any jail or probation time by admitting inappropriate touching, but she lost her teaching license.

spatin
March 25, 2006, 10:27
FALphil, I don't know where you got that list, but it is a real eye-opener. It also tends to prove my point that (1) sex offenders who happen to be women very often get away with it, and (2) there are lots of woman sex offenders.
If society is going to treat male sex offenders like rabid animals, they should treat woman sex offenders just the same.
If the justice system is going to let woman sex offenders get off with treatment and probation, they should do the same for men sex offenders. If there are repeat offenses, mabe they should just expand the death penalty to include those real sexual predators who can not be rehabilitated.
I'm not even so sure it is a good idea to put a "sex offender" tag on any individual, as it really does not accomplish anything. If there is some hope of rehabilitating the offender, treating him or her like a rabid dog is not going to work. At least that's how I see it.
Sidney

vmtz
March 25, 2006, 11:11
Originally posted by spatin
FALphil, I don't know where you got that list, but it is a real eye-opener. It also tends to prove my point that (1) sex offenders who happen to be women very often get away with it, and (2) there are lots of woman sex offenders.
If society is going to treat male sex offenders like rabid animals, they should treat woman sex offenders just the same.
If the justice system is going to let woman sex offenders get off with treatment and probation, they should do the same for men sex offenders. If there are repeat offenses, mabe they should just expand the death penalty to include those real sexual predators who can not be rehabilitated.
I'm not even so sure it is a good idea to put a "sex offender" tag on any individual, as it really does not accomplish anything. If there is some hope of rehabilitating the offender, treating him or her like a rabid dog is not going to work. At least that's how I see it.
Sidney

The problem with treating them like rabid dogs is that it encourages them to hide. An example is making them register and posting it on the net is that it encourages them to play fast an loose with where they live. It does not help anyone if you don't know where they are.

I don't know a better answer.

Vince

K.O.A.M.
March 25, 2006, 11:37
FalPhil, if you ever get sick of doing whatever it is you do, I suspect there are quite a few attorneys on this board that would hire you as a research assistant.

FALPhil
March 25, 2006, 13:55
Originally posted by K.O.A.M.
FalPhil, if you ever get sick of doing whatever it is you do, I suspect there are quite a few attorneys on this board that would hire you as a research assistant.

Well, I am looking for some partime work to supplement my income...

Temp
March 25, 2006, 14:07
Quite a few of the examples provided by FalPhil involves 16 and 17 year old guys.

I'll admit that it's a bit peculiar, but calling it a crime when the "victims" are that old is a bit of a stretch.

When I was 16,... if some older woman had offered me some, I wouldn't have ran home and told my mommy.

spatin
March 25, 2006, 14:12
16 or 17 may be a stretch. But would you consider it a stretch for 16 or 17 yr old girls? Gotta see it both ways.

vmtz - you have a PM from me

Sidney

Temp
March 25, 2006, 14:16
Originally posted by spatin
16 or 17 may be a stretch. But would you consider it a stretch for 16 or 17 yr old girls? Gotta see it both ways.


Sidney

I'll just say this.

My mother was 16 and my father 29 when they got married. They were together until he died.

She grieved at his funeral.

spatin
March 25, 2006, 14:45
Not too long ago it was common for girls to get married at 14 or 15 or thereabouts. Then someone drew a line at certain ages and now the law, instead of nature, tells you when someone is old enough to take on adult responsibilites.
This was probably not my generation, but in the generation before mine, at least in the south where I grew up. There are still many countries in the world where it is not uncommon for young girls to get married off to older men. Can't really find fault with that.
Sidney

Temp
March 25, 2006, 14:55
Originally posted by spatin
Not too long ago it was common for girls to get married at 14 or 15 or thereabouts.

That's what my dad kept trying to tell my mother's father,....

I don't think that Papaw ever really believed it, but eventually, he decided that it wouldn't be for the best to kill him.

English Mike
March 25, 2006, 15:01
Originally posted by chrsdwns
....By the way, in England, 'Outrageous Queens demanded 15' so Blair and the British Parliament complied and lowered the age of consent to 15 so Gays could no longer be prosecuted for molesting young boys. The same is true in much of enlightened Europe. I think that is a crime as well.

The LeFave incident would not have even been an issue there.

The age of consent remains at sixteen in the UK

chrsdwns
March 25, 2006, 15:55
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chrsdwns
....By the way, in England, 'Outrageous Queens demanded 15' so Blair and the British Parliament complied and lowered the age of consent to 15 so Gays could no longer be prosecuted for molesting young boys. The same is true in much of enlightened Europe. I think that is a crime as well.

The LeFave incident would not have even been an issue there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The age of consent remains at sixteen in the UK

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are correct - I had heard that the legislation had passed but it was actually defeated. It did have the full support of the more liberal members of Parliment and may pass if it is reintroduced. The driving force was in fact gays who wanted to hit on young boys. The age of consent is currently 14-15 in most of Europe.

Can't say that I understand the attraction - I have not been interested in Junior High School girls since I graduated from 8th grade. :confused:

9thmoon
March 25, 2006, 23:39
Originally posted by spatin
Not too long ago it was common for girls to get married at 14 or 15 or thereabouts. Then someone drew a line at certain ages and now the law, instead of nature, tells you when someone is old enough to take on adult responsibilites.

We're not talking about adult responsibilities... we're talking about sex.


This was probably not my generation, but in the generation before mine, at least in the south where I grew up. There are still many countries in the world where it is not uncommon for young girls to get married off to older men. Can't really find fault with that.
Sidney

Three to four generations ago, there was no birth control, and you couldn't face the community if you had a child out of wedlock, so they married girls off as soon as they were fertile because they didn't want to be strung up for rape. For that matter, infant mortality 3-4 generations ago was around 50%... if you wanted four kids, you HAD to start early.

Hell. Four generations ago, women couldn't vote. Five, they couldn't own property. Six, they WERE property. You want to go back there?

KEMOSABE
March 26, 2006, 00:04
Originally posted by 9thmoon




Hell. Four generations ago, women couldn't vote. Five, they couldn't own property. Six, they WERE property. You want to go back there?


Ah, the good ole' days.

RT
March 26, 2006, 00:26
after reading all the post, why is it ok for a woman to F a 14 year old boy (woman in 20's+)and wrong for a man to f a 14 year old girl.(man20's+). in florida if a guy is 18 and his girlfriend is 17 and they have sex. he can be a sexual offender if her parents push it. that is wrong in MY eye's. but i think a Man in his 30ies doing a 14 year old is wrong!!! what say you on both sides~R

KEMOSABE
March 26, 2006, 00:43
Sometimes I think people want to see somebody get locked up, it's a feel good thing, like somethings been accomplished. It's like putting a band-aid on skin cancer.

spatin
March 26, 2006, 09:58
Originally posted by 9thmoon


We're not talking about adult responsibilities... we're talking about sex.

Three to four generations ago, there was no birth control, and you couldn't face the community if you had a child out of wedlock, so they married girls off as soon as they were fertile because they didn't want to be strung up for rape. For that matter, infant mortality 3-4 generations ago was around 50%... if you wanted four kids, you HAD to start early.

Hell. Four generations ago, women couldn't vote. Five, they couldn't own property. Six, they WERE property. You want to go back there?


It is so nice to have a woman's point of view in these kinds of discussions.
Re: adult responsibilites .. I did mean sex .. and childbearing, raising children, working on the farm, shouldering responsibilites, etc. Plus, back in the old days, having a girl on the farm was just another mouth to feed. So she got married off to farmer Brown down the valley. It was not nice, it was survival in those days.
Re: voting and property rights.. no, I don't want to go back there, at least not for most of the women I know. Some of the women I have run across in some divorce cases I've handled should be denied the right to vote, however. Irresponsible parasites. But that's just a few in the pile. I'd rather not get into that in this thread, it could be the subject of another thread.
Sidney