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NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 04:08
I've been busy again studying FAL magazines and have come to the following conclusions:-

A) I don't have enough mags.
B) There are a lot more variations then I first thought their was.
C) I need your help.

I need you guys to examine your magazines, but this time I'm going to do it in stages. Hopefully I will manage to get a better overall picture if the situation.

So first off I'm going to start with the early magazines (1954 - 1958 approx.)

This covers the following mags:-
Canadian and British trials mags
Belgium M1 mags
Israeli mags (80YN)
German G1 mags (1005-13-100-0225)


Have a look at the pics and compare them to the mags you have. The main feature to these early mags is:-

Case will have small parallel retaining wings on the bottom to hold the bottom plate on.

Some mags won't have the recess at the back of the case to help lever off the bottom plate.

Some won't have any horizontal 'staking' in the main rib of the case.

Preferably want mags that haven't been refinished as parts can be mixed up and will corrupt the survey data.

With that said, here's the first mag:-
Steel TYPE 1
This type of mag was used with the British X8E1 and Canadian EX.1 rifles c1954.

Note:
No horizontal stake in the rib.
No recess for levering the bottom plate off.

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 04:16
Steel TYPE 2
This type of mag is Belgium for their m1 rifles. c1954/55.

Also some Israeli 80YN marked magazines have these features.

Note:
Horizontal stake in the rib 75 mm from the bottom of the case.
Different follower.
No recess for levering the bottom plate off.

I need conformation from others that have original M1 mags as to the correct bottom plate. I believe the one I have shown is correct for it.

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 04:25
Steel TYPE 3
This type of mag was made for Israel c1954/5.

Note:
Horizontal stake in the rib 71.5 mm from the bottom of the case.
Recess for levering the bottom plate off.
Different bottom plate (double holes).
Marking: 80YN

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 04:33
Steel TYPE 4
This mag is for the German G1 rifles c1956/7.

Note:
Horizontal stake in the rib 71.5 mm from the bottom of the case.
3.5 mm diameter spot weld on the top rib, just above the magazine catch contact point.
Recess for levering the bottom plate off.
Different bottom plate (single hole) and marked 1005-13-100-0225.
New follower design.

Andy the Aussie
February 27, 2006, 05:07
Kevin.....you need a hobby......:p :p

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 05:13
Originally posted by Andy the Aussie
Kevin.....you need a hobby......:p :p

nope, I need a life........... :eek:

Andy the Aussie
February 27, 2006, 05:19
How about a flock .....:p :eek: :uhoh: :devil:

OK....that was low and uncalled for.....really.....I admit it was.....I really should appologise.....I mean not all Kiwis tamper with sheep.....there must be some who have normal.....respectable passtimes.....like intricate studies of ......ummmmm......say....... inch pattern rifles :fal: ......hell.......Kev.......you may well be vindicated....cleared even.......able to be introduced as the "non sheep tampering Kiwi"...... :uhoh: .......but then that overpowering smell of lanolin may be hard to explain....:tongue: :p :devil:

Bloody lucky you don't take me seriously.... ;) (Oh...those velcro gloves you wanted are available here).

Andy :beer:

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 27, 2006, 05:30
Mateeeeeee, how can I ever take you seriously....... your Australian so we know not to take anything you guys say or do seriously :biggrin:

There's nothing wrong with lanolin, it's great for keeping the skin smooth.

Do the gloves come in different colours? I thought some sparkly red ones would be good.

Andy the Aussie
February 27, 2006, 05:40
Bound to score down in the barn if you get the red ones mate.....well.....so I have heard...... ;):biggrin:

EMDII
February 27, 2006, 08:26
Does this qualify?

Metric body, Inch floorplate and subassemblies. Probably Cyrenaican (Libyan). May be SA?

EMDII
February 27, 2006, 08:39
Or this:
Canadian experiemntal magazine, nearly as old as I am.

NZ L1A1 Collector
April 18, 2006, 05:30
I've dragged this over to GFD to try and get some info about these early mags.

Could you please have a look at your mags and see what variations you guys can find in your collections.

As states in the first post I'm just looking for these early mags that have the following features:-

1. Case will have small parallel retaining wings on the bottom to hold the bottom plate on.

2. Some mags won't have the recess at the back of the case to help lever off the bottom plate.

3. Some won't have any horizontal 'staking' in the main rib of the case.


With that being said, I look forward to your participation :)


Ted, please don't move this to R&D forum for a while, I'll move it back there after I get some more data, Cheers.

Nightdriver
April 18, 2006, 09:35
Ok I have one mag that seems to be a type 2.
Same lloking folower
No recess for floor plate removal
Floor plate has one small hole for removal.
Is there a Belgian proofmark on the back spine on yours?

NZ L1A1 Collector
April 18, 2006, 14:54
Originally posted by Nightdriver
Ok I have one mag that seems to be a type 2.
Same lloking folower
No recess for floor plate removal
Floor plate has one small hole for removal.
Is there a Belgian proofmark on the back spine on yours?

Nightdriver,

Thanx for the reply, yes I have an inspectors mark on the back of the case.

Does yours have the stake in the back rib of the case and if so how far along is it? (in millimetres if possible).

Mason
April 18, 2006, 17:20
How about a flock .....

Just as long as you don't wear them rubber boots to keep 'em from gettin' away!

Nightdriver
April 19, 2006, 17:52
Originally posted by NZ L1A1 Collector


Nightdriver,

Thanx for the reply, yes I have an inspectors mark on the back of the case.

Does yours have the stake in the back rib of the case and if so how far along is it? (in millimetres if possible).




Horz. stake at 75.3 mm up from bottom edge.


I was going to try and get a picture of the mark but the camera and my talent for photography conspire against me.

There is only about 1/3 of the left side mark showing

NZ L1A1 Collector
May 02, 2006, 05:36
Nightdriver,

Thanx for the extra info, sounds like you do have a TYPE 2 steel magazine

rmplstlskn
May 02, 2006, 09:21
I have one of these... I think it is a Type #1 "Trials"...

If it is worth anything to a collector, I will trade it for another quality mag with no collector value... MAG has been traded...

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-01.jpg

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-02.jpg

Rmpl :fal:

NZ L1A1 Collector
May 02, 2006, 22:27
Ohhhh gezzzzzzzzzzzzzz someone replies with an early mag and wants to swap it and some other bugger gets it :uhoh: :cry:

Rmpl, did your mag have a stake mark in the back rib?

Also were their any inspectors markings at the back of the case at the bottom?



Originally posted by rmplstlskn
I have one of these... I think it is a Type #1 "Trials"...

If it is worth anything to a collector, I will trade it for another quality mag with no collector value... MAG has been traded...

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-01.jpg

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-02.jpg

Rmpl :fal:

donker
May 02, 2006, 22:41
I have what appears to be a Type 3. I suspect it might have had parts swaped though. The bottom plate is painted black on the bottom and a grey park on top. It has one hole and a small 1mm tab sticking out the back and two punched studs. Just like on several newer magazines I have. The follower looks like the follower on my newer Israeli grey park followers, no folded back metal piece on the bottom as in your picture. The case though is parkerized with no recess for pulling the bottom plate off. It has the same horizontal stake at 71.5mm. One thing on mine that I believe yours might have too is what I call a flatter locking stud on the back of the mag. All the other metric mags I have have a horizontal stake in their middle giving them a double "hump" look. Mine just has what appears to be a relativley round weld spot and is flat like the rest of the rib. Also the back of the magazine has a longer "angle" at the top rear. This, I assume, is to allow the magazine to rock in/out of the rifle. This "angle" is longer on my 80YN than any other metric mag I have and allows it to drop free from my rifle instead of just barely catch, to be rocked the rest of the way out. It roughly measures 20mm from top to bottom, about equal with the bottom of the locking stud. All my other metric mags only measure about 10mm from top to bottom. This difference make it my favorite range mag b/c it falls free onto the (wood) range tables instead of having to twist the rifle a bit on the shooting rest to pull it free. I don't have a digital camera to show you unfortunately.

Illuminaughty
September 22, 2006, 04:30
I have a magazine not listed here. The hump in the magazine follower almost looked like a dummy bullet, and has a smaller part in front of the bigger part, vaguely like a bullet. If I can remember I'll try to get a picture of it to put on here. If I can figure out how to disassemble the mag, I might take pictures of that too.

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 22, 2006, 04:55
Originally posted by Illuminaughty
I have a magazine not listed here. The hump in the magazine follower almost looked like a dummy bullet, and has a smaller part in front of the bigger part, vaguely like a bullet. If I can remember I'll try to get a picture of it to put on here. If I can figure out how to disassemble the mag, I might take pictures of that too.

Sounds very interesting and I would love to see the pics of the mag when you get a chance. If your unable to post pics onto the forum send the pics to me and I will post them for you. Send it to kevin_aATIhug.co.nz (replace AT for @)

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 22, 2006, 05:05
Originally posted by donker
I have what appears to be a Type 3. I suspect it might have had parts swaped though. The bottom plate is painted black on the bottom and a grey park on top. It has one hole and a small 1mm tab sticking out the back and two punched studs. Just like on several newer magazines I have. The follower looks like the follower on my newer Israeli grey park followers, no folded back metal piece on the bottom as in your picture. The case though is parkerized with no recess for pulling the bottom plate off. It has the same horizontal stake at 71.5mm. One thing on mine that I believe yours might have too is what I call a flatter locking stud on the back of the mag. All the other metric mags I have have a horizontal stake in their middle giving them a double "hump" look. Mine just has what appears to be a relativley round weld spot and is flat like the rest of the rib. Also the back of the magazine has a longer "angle" at the top rear. This, I assume, is to allow the magazine to rock in/out of the rifle. This "angle" is longer on my 80YN than any other metric mag I have and allows it to drop free from my rifle instead of just barely catch, to be rocked the rest of the way out. It roughly measures 20mm from top to bottom, about equal with the bottom of the locking stud. All my other metric mags only measure about 10mm from top to bottom. This difference make it my favorite range mag b/c it falls free onto the (wood) range tables instead of having to twist the rifle a bit on the shooting rest to pull it free. I don't have a digital camera to show you unfortunately.


I think your Case seems to fall in between the TYPE 2 and TYPE 3 listed above. The problem is in the early years 1954 - 1956 the manufacturing of the magazines was modified numerous times due to user feedback, thus the headaches in trying to figure out which magazines came first or what the chronological order is.

Illuminaughty
September 23, 2006, 23:39
My FAL mag is regular. I realized what I was thinking of... a CETME mag at my gunsmiths'. D'oh. Sorry guys, no special mag here. XD

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 27, 2006, 02:31
Here's pics of the mag rmplstlskn posted courtesy of it's new owner.

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 27, 2006, 02:34
.

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 27, 2006, 02:41
.

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 27, 2006, 03:03
.

hickman
September 29, 2006, 22:24
Kevin, thanks for the id of the early Izzie mag, went through my stash and found one in really good condition stamped 80yn on the lower part of the left side of the magazine body, I had not not pulled the floorplate as it is pristine, but just did and the follower is identical to yours, with the exception of it being parkerized. I doubt that it is a rework due to the outside of the mag showing a reasonable amount of finish wear. A point of difference is that my floorplate has only 1 small hole, compared to 2 in yours, mine retains the flat tail end of the floorplate versus the newer plates with a protruding tab and larger hole. If you like, I will take pictures of mine and post them up as well, or send them along for reference.

NHBandit
December 13, 2006, 19:17
Here's one that's different than the mags shown. I found 5 or 6 out of a box of 75. Has the horizontal stake 75mm from the bottom like a type 2 but has the floorplate removal recess. Floorplate has 1 small hole. Also has a horizontal stake above the mag catch recess. Has Belgian proof, (all of them have what looks like a backwards 3 inside a square). Any ideas ?

NHBandit
December 13, 2006, 19:19
Floorplate

Strike Penguin
December 14, 2006, 17:05
I'd really like to know the story on NHBandit's mags. Some features of M1 mags, some of Israeli, but FN made - interim type maybe? Something from an early contract?

NZ L1A1 Collector
December 14, 2006, 22:59
NHBandit magazines are from the later TYPE of mags and fall outside the scope of this particular survey, they will have their own survey. NHBandit mag was probably made in the 1960's

Originally I had noted two TYPES of mags the TYPE 1 are covered in this survey and have the narrow retaining wings for the bottom plate.

The TYPE 2 had wider retaining wings with a taper to them.


Problem is once I started to look into the TYPE 1 mags in more detail I found there were in fact 4 variations of magazines and all these appeared to date between 1954 - 1957.

toolbocks
December 19, 2006, 23:54
Originally posted by NZ L1A1 Collector
Steel TYPE 4
This mag is for the German G1 rifles c1956/7.

Note:
Horizontal stake in the rib 71.5 mm from the bottom of the case.
3.5 mm diameter spot weld on the top rib, just above the magazine catch contact point.
Recess for levering the bottom plate off.
Different bottom plate (single hole) and marked 1005-13-100-0225.
New follower design.

I have a magazine exactly as described here, but the bottom plate has no numbering. Does that mean it's not G1, or that the bottom plate was replaced, or does the numbering not always occur?

The finish appears to be "stoved" black, not parkerized like most of my other magazines.

There is also a "W" or "M" (depends on how you look at it) stamped in the back of the magazine body about 1" up from the bottom. Has anyone seen this before?

Thanks in advance.

meek1661
December 22, 2006, 23:46
Hello, I took a look through my mags and found 2 Israeli marked (80YN) mags, each having different characteristics, here is what I noticed:

They both have the horizontal stake in the rib 71.5 mm from the bottom of the case.
The top mag has no recess for levering the bottom plate off, the bottom one does.
Both have different base plates as well as different followers.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8199/mags80hk4.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5257/magssidevy4.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2536/magfollow2yq2.jpg

NZ L1A1 Collector
December 23, 2006, 01:46
Originally posted by toolbocks


I have a magazine exactly as described here, but the bottom plate has no numbering. Does that mean it's not G1, or that the bottom plate was replaced, or does the numbering not always occur?

The finish appears to be "stoved" black, not parkerized like most of my other magazines.

There is also a "W" or "M" (depends on how you look at it) stamped in the back of the magazine body about 1" up from the bottom. Has anyone seen this before?

Thanks in advance.

This magazine is the same as the Steel TYPE 4, yours would just be a standard production FN made magazine. Generally the finish for the magazines should be 'stoving black'. I have magazines with the 'W' or 'M' stamping, these are most likely an inspection marking.

NZ L1A1 Collector
December 23, 2006, 02:19
Originally posted by meek1661
Hello, I took a look through my mags and found 2 Israeli marked (80YN) mags, each having different characteristics, here is what I noticed:

They both have the horizontal stake in the rib 71.5 mm from the bottom of the case.
The top mag has no recess for levering the bottom plate off, the bottom one does.
Both have different base plates as well as different followers.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8199/mags80hk4.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5257/magssidevy4.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2536/magfollow2yq2.jpg

The top mag is a Steel TYPE 2 and will date from 1954 from the original production run of FAL rifles for Israeli.

The bottom is a Steel TYPE 3 magazine, again from around 1954/55

Thank you for showing us a new type of magazine I haven't encountered before.

EX1
December 28, 2006, 01:15
Hello here is another trials mag that I just received for Christmas from my buddy Charlie. Thanks EX1

EX1
December 28, 2006, 01:17
Next pic

Strike Penguin
December 28, 2006, 16:22
Is it just the lighting, or is there some kind of paint on the front of the mag in a splinter-camo pattern?

Does your friend know where I can get some Belgian "steel Type 2s"?

EX1
January 24, 2007, 21:44
Hello here are some more pics of early mags. From left to right Ex1 trials mag,next is what looks to be a trials mag the follower is different than the first there are no holes in it,also there is a J and a box with a 4 stamped on the back of the mag.Next is a Belgian type II mag and next to it is a Izzy 80YN mag. All mags pictured do not have the indention on the bottom for floorplate removal. Thanks EX1

Rhodie
April 12, 2007, 15:47
I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THESE. THEY APPEAR TO BE
RHODESIAN. THANKS.

101ABN327
April 12, 2007, 16:22
These are definately Rhodesian...

http://www.hunt101.com/img/478721-big.jpg

BrianWV
April 16, 2007, 21:09
I've got 3 izzy mags I believe, they are marked YN but no 80 on them. The floor plates have been changed to US ones.
I also have 3 of what you say are German mags marked 105-13-100-0225, two of them lookled parked and one is a smooth black almost stove black.

Hoot G
April 19, 2007, 00:54
Hello,
Are you interested in alloy mags as well, or just steel?
I don't have anything besides what's already in this thread in steel, but I do have a couple of different "small parallel retaining wing" alloy mags.
If you want data on these, I'll take photos and post them.
Great thread, thanks! I've learned a bunch.
Hoot

wheat
May 12, 2007, 21:40
hey
maybe i went too fast, but i did not see anything about aluminum mags.
I picked up a few locally today on craigs list (bad boy)
I have no idea of their origin,
but they are in new condition.
I bought them because i did not have any alu mags
i know nothing about them, but they seem pretty cool and the price was definitely right.
thanks in advance

GOVTMOD
May 24, 2007, 08:23
I just went through all my early mags. The G1 mags are exactly as described. The rest seem to have been mixed up, at least as you describe them and they all have the same type follower. I took pics, (3x G1, 3x Izzy, 3x FN[?]) if you'd like me to send them to you.

EX1
December 13, 2009, 22:01
BTT This needs to be a sticky thread. Thanks EX1

jimmbob
January 07, 2013, 17:17
Steel TYPE 2
This type of mag is Belgium for their m1 rifles. c1954/55.

Also some Israeli 80YN marked magazines have these features.

Note:
Horizontal stake in the rib 75 mm from the bottom of the case.
Different follower.
No recess for levering the bottom plate off.

I need conformation from others that have original M1 mags as to the correct bottom plate. I believe the one I have shown is correct for it.



Cool thread, NZ L1A1 - very informative:bow: Thanks!

I just bought some old FAL mags and one of them has a 1955 proof on it and is exactly as you have described above except for the floorplate. Mine is just the same as the one you pictured other than having a small hole just next to the squared end.

Tim Dreas
January 08, 2013, 20:48
I have some similar Belgian-made T-48 metric magazines that have followers similar to some of those. The followers are bright steel and look a lot like FN-49 followers. The ones I have were imported with the early Belgian-made T-48 rifles.

Ironhandjohn
February 05, 2013, 17:44
My X2 E1-marked mag that came in a pile of mags I traded for last month. The only markings on the body are a '4' and '5'' below it on the lower edge of the spine. If there was ever a white stripe painted on the mag body it's long-gone now, as the whole mag is painted with the thick black paint that all of the others, save for the 2 blued mags, are covered in.

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/007_zps244527ca.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/004_zps7cf2fe5e.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/003_zps326cbda9.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/001_zps18ff99f5.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/008_zpsb592a8fc.jpg

Bladewurk
March 30, 2014, 20:56
I have some early mags and really wanna participate. However none of the pics in this thread show up for me?