Old Rifle / New Laws - HELP!

[fred g]

I have a Maddi I bought during the early ninties.

Can I now grind off the barrel cap for a compensator and replace the thumbhole stock with a stock and grip?

I looked at the ATF site to read up on what the laws are now but there was little there of use. (I do not need a tax stamp for my my potato gun)
What are the laws called (NFA?) and where can I find them written out?


Thanks,
Fred G

[1811GNR]

You will need to comply with 922R (law, code, whatever it is) concerning foreign/US made parts count.

Go here (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1592) for details.

[para45haldin]

its not that simple. if your weapon was imported with a thumbhole stock, it can't be changed. that was the sporting test. it has to have the thumbhole stock and no comp.

[ssgrock3]

I would check out that pretty close. It seems others have used the iron wood US stocks that made it all good, Others may have used the romy wood and made sure their US parts count is correct. Again I am not an expert.

[fred g]

Do any of you know of any responsible gun owners who have had their import dates checked and American parts counted and then been busted?

It strikes me the BATF has trouble pouring piss out of a boot.

The lack of hard information on what is OK and what is not, seems a little thin.

Even on a site like this chocked full of knowledge and experience (thank you all for your posts) no one seems too confident on what can be done.

I'll just sell it to a speed freak in the parking lot of the next gun show :eek:
(it is after all a sporting weapon...) and go in and buy a legit one.

I would hate to run afoul of the law...

FG

[Merl]

you have to comply with 922 if the weapon changes. I do not know of a case where someone was prosecuted for violating it but am not voulenteering to be a test case. As is, the law is rather unenforcable since makers are not required to mark thier parts and it can be hard to tell the difference.

[jamesq]

Originally posted by fred g
I'll just sell it to a speed freak in the parking lot of the next gun show :eek:
(it is after all a sporting weapon...) and go in and buy a legit one.

I would hate to run afoul of the law...

FG

i know this was a joke, but that is one thing the law is pretty clear on. in the future, please don't joke about breaking the law. uncle sam doesn't have a sense of humor; unless you consider some of the laws written, which are mostly punch line and no setup...

from what i've read, if you change anything (excluding a monte carlo stock) on a norinco sks (for example) which is completely chinese made and legally imported before the ban, you then have to comply with the parts count rule. if the rifle in question is completely egyptian and has a thumbhole stock and no comp., in order to change those features you must have no more than 10 imported parts (of the countable parts) in the rifle and it is then considered made in the USA and not subject to the sporting import requirement set by 922r. of course don't quote me on that since i'm not an lawyer. if you're uncomfortable doing anything, don't do it. there are risks crossing the street. and the law is purposely ambiguous so people will avoid doing anything at all other than pay taxes and sometimes they take everything you have including your freedom anyway.

[fred g]

Is private sale against the law now too?

[1811GNR]

It's your rifle, do whatever you want.

You could always call the ATFE tech branch for an opinion. Then call back and talk to a different agent and get a different answeer.

The applicable law may be title 18 u.s.c section 922r. Er sumpin like that.

[jamesq]

Originally posted by fred g
Is private sale against the law now too?

uh no, but selling it to someone on drugs or a felon is.

[fred g]

I was joking about the speed freak thing.

The Maddi is a nice rifle. It shoots well and looks fantastic.

I shaped and lengthened the stock and carved finger grooves on the grip then finished it in a deep deep plum. (almost black)

It's too bad there is not a easy/legit way to swap out the wood. Rebuilding the rifle with American parts is too much time, trouble and money to put into an inexpensive rifle just so I can change it's look. Time, trouble and money that is better spent ON BUILDING ANOTHER FAL!

Thanks for your input, keep your powder dry,

FG

[3-gunner]

It's not that big a deal. Get a US made stock set,comp , gas piston and a few US stamped floorplates for your mags. around $100.00
Or send me pic's and we can talk.:biggrin:

[jamesq]

i think the ak has 15 or 16 countable parts. depending on if it has a muzzle device or not. cheapest bet would be US: THS, piston, stock, PG. or if you only have a few mags go with the mag parts sub option. i think maasguns (http://www.maasguns.com/) will have most of what you need for cheap.

[Da Nerd]

Originally posted by para45haldin
its not that simple. if your weapon was imported with a thumbhole stock, it can't be changed. that was the sporting test. it has to have the thumbhole stock and no comp.
What are you some Philadelphia Lawyer?

U R WRONG

[fred g]

Got any insight on this subject BoB?


Or just lookin for a fight.

[Klutch]

Originally posted by fred g
Got any insight on this subject BoB?


Or just lookin for a fight.

James pretty much has it. 922R came into effect in 90 so they started modifying the rifles to be "sporting" (putting a non-pistol grip stock on them). Then people realized that instead you could change out parts to make them "US MADE". You could get the Hammer, trigger, sear , pistol grip, handguards, buttstock and gas piston and surely be good to go. TONS of outfits are selling these parts. Really you just need to get a definative answer on just how many parts need to be changed out but it's probably 6 or 7, especially if you take the muzzle nut off and install a "device" on the end.

[Da Nerd]

Originally posted by fred g
Got any insight on this subject BoB?


Or just lookin for a fight.

Well do YOU have any insite for your advice?
The "sporting thing" goes away if you are compliant with 922R.

[fred g]

No advice here BoB, only questions.

So BoB, what IS the law?

[Da Nerd]

read the above post

[jrkoller]

I bought a Norinco AK in the early 90's with the thumb hole stock first thing was to get rid of the thumb hole stock, 1 it was to big for my little meat hooks 2, i didn't like it so i put on a laminated stock and pistol grip changed the hand guards, I don't remember but i think it was a US stock that i bought and put on a muzzle break new top cover with scope mount, cops saw but didn't say a thing, now that i moved out of the city and live in the Boonies no one says anything when i shoot it.
I have two Drums 1 -90 rnd and 1- 75 rnd? how do you make them legal? change the follower?
Joe

[Da Nerd]

You need to research to find out the number of USA parts needed to exchange to make it an American made rifle.

[jamesq]

Originally posted by jrkoller

I have two Drums 1 -90 rnd and 1- 75 rnd? how do you make them legal? change the follower?
Joe

just read up on it. we covered legal imported/US made rifles in this thread already.

[raexcct2]

Info from TAPCO web page:


Rifle Compliance Count Page Qty in Basket: 0 Subtotal: $0.00

ASSEMBLY OF NON-SPORTING SHOTGUNS AND SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES FROM IMPORTED PARTS

Disclaimer: This is an attempt to interpret this law. Information taken from this context should not be considered permission to manufacture semiautomatic rifles.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Butt stocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, hand guards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floor plates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

EFFECT ON STATE LAW
Expiration of the Federal law will not change any provisions of State law or local ordinances. Questions concerning State assault weapons restrictions should be referred to State and local authorities.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives



As mentioned above, the below chart shows which regulated parts are contained in each rifle.

FAL AK SKS
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, 1 1 1
forgings or stampings
Barrels 1 1 1
Barrel extensions
Mounting blocks (trunions) 1
Muzzle attachments 1 1 1
Bolts 1 1 1
Bolt carriers 1 1 1
Operating rods 1 1
Gas pistons 1 1 1
Trigger housings 1 1
Triggers 1 1 1
Hammers 1 1 1
Sears 1 1
disconnectors 1 1
Butt stocks 1 1 1
Pistol grips 1 1 1
Forearms, hand guards 1 1 1
Magazine bodies 1 1 1
Followers 1 1 1
Floor plates 1 1 1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 16 18

Go to the web page as the tables are not aligning properly in this thread no matter how many times I've corrected them.

TAPCO US PARTS WEB PAGE (http://www.tapco.com/page.asp?id=83)

[fred g]

THANK YOU!



FG

[derek huffman, azexarms]

Change out 6 parts. After you read the below part, you may want to leave the muzzle alone and just change out 5.

Man, you guys make stuff difficult.

A small prob you may have with the Maadi is that SOME of them have what appears to be a thread protective nut tack welded on the end but when you remove it, there are not threads underneath and the nominal diameter is about .520".

This can be a problem, since you can't hand thread it (1/2 x 28, the most common muzzle thread near that major diameter) at that diameter without busting up your die. Also, it cannot be threaded 14x1LH (the most common and correct 7.62mm muzzle thread) because there simply isnt that much material there left over, once they lathed off the threads for postban legality at the factory.

SO, you may end up sourcing a 1/2x28 threaded AK brake, and having the bbl pulled and threaded 1/2 x 28 and then boring out the brake to allow the .311 AK projectiles to pass through, unmolested. Typically, since I pull all AK bbls for threading, you can drill out the brake at around .375".

If you thread by hand, you not only will have some probs getting it exactly straight, but you'd be best advised to bore out to about .400.

D.
AZEX

[Tango 1Zero]

Early banned MAADIS did have threaded muzzles with a tack welded cap. I have two of them. Later they had a non threaded barrel and a muzzle cap to make it look like a regular end.

[fred g]

Yup, mine has threads and the conversion is underway.

[Tango 1Zero]

I converted mine years ago. Those are nice rifles.

[NHBandit]

Originally posted by jamesq


uh no, but selling it to someone on drugs or a felon is. James while you are correct in that statement it is illegal to KNOWINGLY sell to a felon or a druggie. The last time I checked a private citizen making a private sale in his home state was not required to do a background check on the buyer. There are enough BS laws out there already without people giving bad information to make it seem like the general public is now supposed to do the job of the police. Fred lives in NH.. so do I ... We take our state motto very seriously here.

[jamesq]

Originally posted by NHBandit
James while you are correct in that statement it is illegal to KNOWINGLY sell to a felon or a druggie. The last time I checked a private citizen making a private sale in his home state was not required to do a background check on the buyer. There are enough BS laws out there already without people giving bad information to make it seem like the general public is now supposed to do the job of the police. Fred lives in NH.. so do I ... We take our state motto very seriously here.

yes, that sounds reasonable. did you read the post i was responding to? i reread it and it's pretty dead bang. where is the bad information i was giving?

[321poof]

Dont do it......:D