$15K for prep - What to do???

[StrongMedicine]

OK, somewhat new to this. If you have your home and vehicles paid for. What would you do/how would you budget your next $15K for prep? In what order of priority and how much for each item on that list?
IE: This list is hypothetical and for example only.
Item-1 Beans $6k
Item-2 Bullets $3k
Item-3 Fuel $3k
Item-4 Negotiables/Trade goods $3k
Item-5 etc.............
What would be on your list if you were starting from scratch?

[StrongMedicine]

Would trade goods take precedence over say, 1000 oz silver? I would think it would, what's your thoughts?

[Rawles]

Your priority/ratio of purchases should vary a bit, depending on the size of your family. If you are just preparing for yourself, then $2K for food might be sufficient. But, for example, with a family of five $8K to $9K on food would be more appropriate. Since you are a FALFiles member, I'll assume that you are already squared away on firearms. Most FALFilers are like the "Dan Fong" character in my novel ("Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse") :-)

Don't overlook communications and first aid purchasing.

For some ideas on related topics, including what items to stock for barter, see my blog (http://www.SurvivalBlog.com) A quick scan of the SurvivalBlog archives will give you some good ideas.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd invest most of it elsewhere on the offhand chance TEOTW doesn't happen and we only have to deal with the end of social security and corporate sponsored retirements at a time in our lives when our earning powers are waning. Afterall it would it not be prudent to worry about the most likely as well as the most adverse situations?

[ONG]

How about a good generator & battery backup system?

[TheOtherChris]

My opinion:

Every family should have at least a 6 month supply of of 'living', but a year's worth is better. This includes food, heat, money, etc.

Next, make sure you have a good water supply like a well with back up hand pump or live water on or very near the property. If you will be relying on surface water, plan for filtration needs.

If you're on this forum and talking about disposable cash in excess of a couple of thousand dollars, I am going to assume that you have already covered the essential firearms needs.

I short, after becoming debt-free, I would increase my self-sufficiency capabilities. How long can I live comfortably without restocking? Do I have the skills, tools and material to re-supply. If you skills and products/services would have been valuable to the settler towns of the mid 1800's, it will be valuable in a TEOTWAWKI situation; if it happens.

The man that can trade his stockpile of alcohol will do well till it is exhausted, but the man that can make booze will do well for a long time.

[azdave12]

You say your home is payed for, but didn't say if you plan on STAYING there pretty much no matter what the SHTF scenario is--in other words "hunker down". If you don't, then a place to go--land, retreat, whatever you want to call it is a huge step that has to be figured out. Alot of people I know plan on "bugging out" and have done alot of equipment preps, but have limited ideas on where they're going---"out in the hills somewhere" and "into (fill in the name) mountain range" are common answers. Thats great for fantasy and the movies, but not such a wise plan, in my opinion.
Land is "usually" never a bad investment (especially in Az)----and its something that you can use no matter what. Just make sure its accessible from various alternate routes and usable/defendable. Of course water is a primary concern when talking property, also.

[K. Funk]

My priorities in the coming year are long term food and fuel. The generator is in and has about a 3-5 day supply of propane at any given time. I am planning on putting in a 1000 gal tank this year. I am also planning on laying in a year supply of non-perishable food stuffs. I think the time is near to start talking to some key like-minded neighbors as well. I live in a fairly rural area, so I think it will be important to pull together our skill sets to increase our strength and be in a position to help some of our neighbors who are not able to help themselves. As far as those unwilling, that's a different story.

krf

[Da Nerd]

Buy the foods you eat, and eat the foods you buy.
Nothing could be worse than being thrown into a SHTF scenario and be forced to eat and prepare food that you have never tried before.
Recycle your food, so it don't get stale. You will never lose any money that way and may even save some, buying in bulk etc.
Bean, rice and spaghetti plus others can be stored for many many years if prepared properly. Learn how.
Always separate a portion that you can take in a hurry if for some reason you have to bug out real quick. That way you can take a little bit of everything.
You will also need to cook your food and heat your home if SHTF., so prepare what you like best in that regards.
Naturally a good source of water, aside from the amount you have stored to get you by for a period of time. Water filtration and purification is the key.
If you see the need to bug out, plan on getting something in the nature of a good tent, and what else is needed to live in 'the wild'.
Medical supplies are also a must, plus extra medicine that you are taking.
(also recycle)
Also dont forget to have some means of washing yourself and your clothes.
Basically it is like this, imagine some one turned off the lights and gas, and closed the grocery store and pharmacy .
What would you need or want?
HTH

[gewehrmonkey]

I say invest in self-sufficiency. If it were me, I'd go solar for my power and hot water heating. Eventually, the savings will allow the purchase of more independence and your wife won't think it's just a fruitcake idea. Long term and not just beneficial in the event of TEOTWAWKI.

[Padeep]

If I had 15K and were starting from scratch....

4k ammo
2k food/water
1k fuel
1K silver
1K everything else
6k cash.

Cash is king. If there is a natural disaster, greenbacks remain preferred currency. Especially if you are on the move.

Silver might come in handy if things get real bad.

Ammo and food will pull you through the next phase.

Anybody hear of people trading gold/silver for goods after katrina?

Could you buy a tank of gas with silver while evacuating Rita?

If our money system fails, ammo will be worth its weight in gold IMO



Pdp

[Da Nerd]

Originally posted by Padeep


Anybody hear of people trading gold/silver for goods after katrina?



Pdp
HAHAHAHH Do you think anyone in NO had any gold or silver?????

[Padeep]

Originally posted by Da Nerd

HAHAHAHH Do you think anyone in NO had any gold or silver?????

I was thinking the same while typing...:bow:

Try this; take a 1oz gold coin to your local Chevron, tell zit face you want 150 gallons of fuel, and the rest in food/water/beer....

Think he'd do it?

Surely he's heard of gold. But by the looks of that little coin, I bet you'd be lucky to get a carton of smokes.


Pdp

[Da Nerd]

When gold and silver become a necessity, you wont be dealing with zit face at the Loco Gas Pumps.
There wont be no gas pumps, and you are walking the last mile to oblivion when you see the only truck on the road. He is transporting people to the (name your border) and he don't want beans. He wants gold. Ask many a Jew how they got out of Germany prior or during WWII.
Some one who has a large hoard of beans, don't want to trade for more beans cause we want to flee to Belize. He wants gold. GOLD is accepted around the world. WWII German marks are not.!
The amount of gold i can carry is far greater than what i can carry in beans.
I am not saying GOLD is the end-all be all item, IT is just part of a well balance port-folio of survival items.

All those Nazis that fled Germany at the end of the war to South America have been living in high style, and it is not because they brought a lot of beans with them.

[Padeep]

There were real world situations in the US this summer where ammo and cash would have helped alot more than silver or gold.

As for the German marks: depression, inflation, and war all have different affects on currency. Weapons and ammo could have helped the jews also...


Pdp

[MajHenryWest]

How about setting aside a portion of the budget for training? Good examples might be an EMT course, skilled trades classes (i.e. basic welding, machining, etc) and whatever else seems appropriate.

Something else you might want to think about is budgeting a little for extra supplies that you could use to sustain any "uninvited guests" that showed up and you don't want to turn away, or donate to locals in tough times to build a lot of good will, as well as being benevolent.

[Charles Bobinis]

Depending on the event; your options will vary.

I've spent a fair amount of time during hunting seasons over the last 10 years or so, living up in the "mountains" in the cold at camp. While it seems theoretically "easy" to make the change back into 18th Century living conditions, being there and doing it is a huge change from the insideous luxury of modern life, and that can be a psychological trauma to many people. So, you might like to know first what indispensible loved ones can handle, whether their attitude can be modified, and what your realistic options would be for bugging out or digging in, in progressively bad to worst situations.

Given conditions here in the East, I have my doubts about whether you could get out of the urban areas in many scenarios, and if you did, whether it would be worth it. There are things worse than death. A truly catastrophic event of national and/or global proportions would involve a permanent change in lifestyle, and possibly basic values.

Except for you cockroaches (you know who you are), there is probably a point where most of us would say, "enough is enough." As one poster suggested, its all well and good to shoot straight, have some food and water put away, and be able to leave town for awhile. Its also good to be able to have a roof over your head, and a warm bed to sleep in, when you're too old to work anymore. Balance, brothers!

[rezman]

Here's a link to a good SHTF story that doesn't involve all of us using our precious guns and ammo to save our arses. This is a great read, and the author uses all the unsettling stuff going on today in this country. Read with an open mind and tell me that this scenario isn't possible in todays world.

After reading this I realize I need much more in supplies and know how than ordnance if the SHTF. Long but thought provoking.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136417

[FTW2012]

buy a machine gun

[gunplumber]

I'd spend some of the money on getting EMT basic certification, and taking a gunsite/thunder ranch/yavaipi/marksmans' ent basic and intermediate class on the carbine and pistol.


15k really isn't that much. I want to echo the above comments on your food.

Buy stuff you are going to eat anyway.

I still have some of my Y2K food. I didn't know canned mackeral had skin and bones in it - thought it would be like tuna.

So everytime I go shopping, I buy my regular dry goods I just buy 2-3 times what I need. The rest goes into storage.

As an avid reader, I have many bookcases throughout the house. I store my canned goods behind my books.

[Powderfinger]

Originally posted by Charles Bobinis
Depending on the event; your options will vary.

I've spent a fair amount of time during hunting seasons over the last 10 years or so, living up in the "mountains" in the cold at camp. While it seems theoretically "easy" to make the change back into 18th Century living conditions, being there and doing it is a huge change from the insideous luxury of modern life, and that can be a psychological trauma to many people. So, you might like to know first what indispensible loved ones can handle, whether their attitude can be modified, and what your realistic options would be for bugging out or digging in, in progressively bad to worst situations.

Given conditions here in the East, I have my doubts about whether you could get out of the urban areas in many scenarios, and if you did, whether it would be worth it. There are things worse than death. A truly catastrophic event of national and/or global proportions would involve a permanent change in lifestyle, and possibly basic values.

Except for you cockroaches (you know who you are), there is probably a point where most of us would say, "enough is enough." As one poster suggested, its all well and good to shoot straight, have some food and water put away, and be able to leave town for awhile. Its also good to be able to have a roof over your head, and a warm bed to sleep in, when you're too old to work anymore. Balance, brothers!

Well stated. I have thought of the logistics of different SHTF scenarios at length.
Most likely, a natural disaster could hit here (flood, windstorm, earthquake, volcanic eruption) and cause varying levels of breakdown of normalcy for varying amounts of time. A month or 2 supply of food, water, meds, fuel, etc. on hand would be advisable. A 9.2 on the Richter scale of the Cascadia subduction zone would destroy most of the infrastucture of the Pac. NW. We are due for one, but the window is 400 years. Probably time to move on for that one if you survive it. Mt. Rainier goes off? 200' deep mud flows down through Tacoma would suck. May want to move on for that one too.

Non-natural disasters i.e.-a total collapse of the dollar or WWIV spreading to the homeland, well, there would be nowhere for the hordes to really move on to. So now what. I'm in a suburban/rural area and could grow some garden crops and put up some food, but what about the roaming zombies who will come calling for dinner? I guess we should have a couple tons of lime on hand too for when the bodies pile up while using that 4K worth of fire power and save some diesel for the back hoe....Realistically, my wife and girls are not really outdoorsy, so it would be a challenge to survive a martial law type situation. We would have to band together with our (thankfully) like minded neighbors and play it low key.



I need to get one of those little deisel tractors and a wagon. They looked real popular in the Sebian war.- ;)

[FTW2012]

Won't FEMA come to the rescue?
What about our free gift cards?

[FREE RIFLEMAN]

FEMA?

The Federally Expensive Mis-management Agency?

[splattermatic]

wow !:eek:

you guys got it all wrong...

if disaster does strike in some way, shape, or form...

i will have @160 gallons of fuel, over 120 in the aux., fuel cell in the bed, @70 gallons of drinking water in plastic containers,mre's, and other non parishable foods, enough for the wife and i for at least a month,guns,ammo, cash..etc...

back up to my self contained camper and go !!

who the hell wants to ride it out at home ??

mobile is the word...

i haven't seen one post about having some sort of camper with water,heat, and a/c yet ??

our camper is always fully stocked, with food stuff, charged batteries, a solar panel for recharging, and i have at least 8 full bottles of propane on hand at all times, use them for my gas grill, one gets empty, take it work and refill it,..the camper also doubles as a haul trailer, so what wont fit in the truck goes in there ...if time permits, grab garden hose and fill water holding tank theres another 40 gallons of water...

then hook up with the g man and his truck /camper combo and outta here we go...

chip,george and i spent 10 days in the mountains hunting, and wanted for nothing..propane fridge also keeps parishables longer lasting...

as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....
i'LL EDIT THIS HERE TO SAY, I AM NOT SAYING I WONT TRY OTHER ITEMS TO BARTER WITH, JUST NOT SILVER OR GOLD....
YOU TOOK IT TOO LITERAL AS IN I WOULDN'T TRY OTHER ITEMS OR METHODS, JUST NOT THE GOLD AND SILVER...
DUDE, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU THAT, YOU WOULD MAKE ME OUT TO BE A COLD BLOODED KILLER...
GFY..I SIMPLY IMPLIED OR STATED IF THERE WERE NO OTHER RECOURSE TO GET HELP AFTER ALL OTHER ATTEMPTS WERE MADE, I WOULD DO WHAT I HAD TO DO FOR THE SURVIVAL OF MY FAMILY..THAT IS HOW I FEEL AND MOST DO TOO, JUST NO PUBLICLY STATING IT...SO MAKE ME OUT TO BE A KILLER,ROBBER ,"THUG" OR WHATEVER..YOU DON'T KNOW ME, PAY MY BILLS, SLEEP WITH ME, OR HAVE ANYTHING OTHER TO DO WITH ME OTHER THAN READ MY POSTS AND LOOK AT MY PICTURES....YOUR OPINION OF ME IS PROBABLY LIKE MY OPINION OF YOU..
YOURS OF ME ISN'T WORTH ANYMORE THAN WHAT I PAID FOR IT...NOTHING..
ABSOFRICKINGLOOTLY NOTHING, YOU AREN'T SQUAT TO ME, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM OTHER THAN ANOTHER USER NAME ON A COMPUTER....
LET IT REST, WHAT IS IT YOU ARE TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS, DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER?? YOU AINT GOT THE POWER TO NOCK ME DOWN IN MOST EVERYONE HERE'S EYE'S...THEY ALL KNOW ME FOR BEING A KIND, CARING, GIVING, OPEN MINDED CHARACTER WITH A HEART OF GOLD...(AND WITH LOTS OF COOL TOYS)....AGAIN, WHAT IS YOUR POINT TO SINGLE ME OUT FOR YOUR ATTACKS ??? THERE ARE OTHERS WHO HAVE SAID THE SAME AND YET YOU KEEP COMING AFTER ME..
GOT A GRUDGE AGAINST ME FOR SOMETHING, JELOUS ? SPEAK YOUR PEACE AND LETS GET IT OUT IN THE OPEN...OR LEAVE IT ALONE....AND CRAWL BACK INTO THE FLUFFY FANTASY WORLD YOU LIVE IN....

that simple.....

oh and spare tires,and d/c tools for quick changes, to include air pump,and hi lift jack, tow rope,,(ask g man about that thing), jumper cables...truck has 2 batteries and i have 4 for the camper...

couldn't be simpler....

[Powderfinger]

The topic here seems to cover the gammit. Most people here probably have the basics to cover a week or month break in truck delivered goods to Safeway or the loss of power/water after a natural disaster.
Someone wondering what to spend 15K on for stockpiles, where 3-4K worth of firepower is on the list is planning for the long term break down of society and TEOTWAWKI. Rawles with a comma, a question for you. Do you plug every one who appears near your compound? Might want to trade those antique rifles for an MBR. They may come in groups of 20-30 and be armed when the word gets out about what you have on hand. And what good is that REAL money clinking in your pocket when there ain't nothing for sale.
Splatt, Sounds good for a season at most. And don't go to the same hunting grounds where the other 2,000 like minded campers will be hung up in a four wheel drive traffic jam. You may want to trade that tow rope in on a Warn winch. Of course later, when your limited supplies run out and if I got what you need, you could just shoot me and take it.
Just some things to ponder, Flame at will.:(

[splattermatic]

I AM SURE LIKE MINDED PEOPLE WOULD BAND TOGETHER, I'M TALKING ABOUT SHEEPLE OR OTHER NON LIKE MINDED FOLK..
AS FOR THE WINCH, WELL, I AM NOT PLANNING ON GETTING INTO A PLACE WHERE I WOULD NEED IT...(oops caps lock on here at work)....as my camper doesnt have that kind of clearance to get there,,,but george has another powerstroke all souped up and between the 2 of us i think there's not much we couldn't handle..

just trying to say , that bartering isn't for everyone !! i guess i'm just a mean person, and look out for me and mine in a different way...

[Powderfinger]

Now we are getting somewhere. "Like minded people banding together" when TWEAWKI. Fast forward a couple 2, 3 months. Rations are low, people getting sick and hungary 'cause they didn't plan far enough ahead. Spaltt's got a deer hanging-let's go see if he'll share. All of a sudden we aren't like minded any more....

My point is this. Can anyone really have a well thought out LONG term plan for surviving the total breakdown of society? I don't. Floods and storms are baby shit. I have no military or civil training for organizing, defending and disciplining a group of "like minded people". Isn't that what it would take? Sure, I could survive alone, but I have a wife with limited physical ability and a couple cream puff daughters who don't have a clue. They weren't raised in a dirt floored hut with a bowl of roots and shoots for supper. As I said before, it would be a challenge. The challenge of a life time.

[splattermatic]

like minded people to me means with self contained living quarters, not camped somewhere and we that are traveling together have the same thoughts and ideas..
stop somewhere it's safe, and depending on what has happened to bring this on, rest, and move again..
one of us has a break down, we all stop to provide security and help.....
if it's a loss, they move in with all needed supplies and leave whatever behind..

now if we hole up for a spell, then we all work together like a large family, just like villagers in todays rain forrests or in africa, they survive quite well, banding together, and helping one another...but there'll be no free loading..

supplies get short, we go a scrounging,,, if there is some sort of civilization nearby guess who gets "hit"...and i am sure we are likely to get "hit" as well, thats where the firepower comes into play...

i have military training as well as survival training and can live off the land for a spell if need be...as well as my partner, the wives, well....were back to basic man again then,, cooking, cleaning, depending on us for their survival..i guess...

aint no more shopping malls and resturants...


but all this is conditional to what happened,, are we talking mad max kinda scenerio or just natural disaster, or a collapse of society, or what are we talking here..
each survival scenerio depends on why we are doing this...
an invasion, well forget it, cuz we aren't as equipt as an invading force, it'll be fun til i die of a sucking chest wound.....

our own military turning on us, with all the hi tech stuff ?? better just shoot yours and yourself, cuz one smart bomb and your gone, be it in the hills, or at home..

toast.....

end of story....

[Powderfinger]

The gist of the thread is stockpiling $15,000 worth of supplies with 3 grand for firepower. Some thousands in bullion. 8-9 K for grub. This isn't for storms and floods. LIke I said, that would be baby shit to survive. This is for WWIV. Or collapse of the dollar that would make the Depression look like kindergarten. Martial law in a New World Order. So you aren't going to be doing much travelling around, especially in a caravan of like minded people, IMO. That scenario is possible I suppose, but how do you really make do long term? Like I said, I don't know. The "experts" like Rawles (with a comma) seem to have it figuered out. Maybe. We all should have a years worth of supplies. I don't. And I still wonder, if the time comes when it's needed, how does Joe citizen protect it and get along with his neighbors, let alone the zombies.

[splattermatic]

mmmmmmmmm zombie killin...now we're talkin.......

[Powderfinger]

The topic is surviving (long term), not going out with a sucking chest wound inflicted by a zombie or someone you thought was like minded. I live on a paved road although at a dead end, so I'm not hidden in the boonies. No chickens, or milk cow. Sure, I have weapons and ammo enough for several men, but my wife and girls aren't going to do much with it against a determined threat or attack- i.e. bands of hungary bad guys on the prowl. So I ask again, what is a practical, feasible long term plan weather I'm here at the homestead or out in the boonies?

[the gman]

I dunno what you mean mate? Gotta be specific on the scenario man, what may or may not apply in one disaster or problem depends entirely on the circumstances.

To be brief, it would not hurt to do as many have suggested here as regards having food/water/ammo in stock. Take some EMT/handyman courses, research & apply some basic energy/alternative energy supply principles to your home.

Most of all, if you have "powder puff" daughters, well, not to put too fine a point on it, (& with absolutely NO insult intended) you've already gone wrong with 'em & you may have to do something drastic to change that attitude......

My two sisters, whilst not being real keen on the idea or practical application thereof, can gut, skin & cook most any wild animal. My parents taught them how from an early age. Certainly the younger of my sisters would most seriously avoid dressing game, but if TSHTF, she CAN & more importantly, WILL do so.

I cannot see me needing the gold; fer sure as shit, I WON'T be climbing in any trucks for 're-education' & as for barter, well, I kinda figger to be falling in with Splat on this one. Only the strong survive & all that......

I look at things that could feasibly happen. Maybe something like the Stephen King book "The Stand" or the movie "The Postman". I would honestly surmise that *if* say a major virus or biological warfare pathogen was introduced into the US, that might lead to a MAJOR breakdown in society. How about a large meteorite smacking into the planet??

They seem to me to be more likely scenarios' rather than an invasion or the Govt. turning on it's citizens, at least, in MY lifetime.......

How each of us handles this depends on the individual. I would feel mighty happy to be standing shoulder to shoulder with Splat, :biggrin: he & I think very alike on about 99.99% of things, especially as it pertains to survival of us & ours.

Pretty soon I should be in the position to buy a few thousand acres of land, with grazing, water & plenty of opportunities for renewable power/heat & light. I have many ideas as regards construction of my ideal home & the will, energy & vision to implement them. A few beeves, hogs, sheep, supplemented with some wild animals as required & our own garden will provide all that we would need for as long as I would want to be around.

Of course, one of the major bummers with all this 'breakdown of society' would be the lack of the FAL FILES!!!!:sad: :sad:

I would hope that this thread is extremely hypothetical, sad to say, if it ain't, a BUNCH of the so-called 'normal' folks who live in the city ain't gonna make it IMHO.........:devil: :devil:

[Fallschirmjager]

My humble opinion is simply this:
First you have to define what situation you are preparing for. If it is the 'usual' natural disaster then you are looking at a shorter time frame for returning to normal than you would be facing if the situation is say The New Madrid Fault shifts and the country's tectonic plates shift by a few miles. Same for man made disasters: small dirty bomb vs. the vaporization of NYC (OK, I know that could be classified as urban renewal, but still).

If you look at the worse case situation, then 15K is chump change. If you look at the 'usual' disruption situation caused by weather, etc. then the 15K could set you up quite well until things return to normal.

I think you have to scale your preps to the most likely disasters you will face in your geographical area. Once you scale your preps for that then carry it to the next step up in disaster planning. And continue to do so when you reach the next level of appropriate preps.

I think one pitfall is that most of us, and I am guilty of this, get the mindset that once we get to a level we then just sit on our duffs until the event happens. But the survival philosophy is one where we are continually expanding our scope of preparedness. Face it, it is a never-ending process, just as learning. We finish 'formal education' but continue to learn and expand our knowledge with the 'formal education' as a jumping off point.

Sometimes we get too caught up in the ‘tools’, like Tim on Tool Time. We get the weapons, and then all the accouterments, the ammo is stacked up to the point that if our house or garage caught fire, it wouldn’t burn but leave a smoldering crater a block in diameter. But what we forget to do is to get out to the range on a regular basis and learn to use those tools to the best of our abilities. We may have an arsenal that would rival a third world country, but couldn’t hit the broadside of the barn from ten paces.

Being able to survive a situation is to analyze exactly what you are preparing for situation wise. Then taking that data and matching supplies tools, etc. to meet the need. When you have achieved that goal, then analyze what next most probable situation you may face. Always remember that anything is possible, but not necessarily probable. Collect data, analyze it, then develop the support mechanisms needed to counter the threat. And always remember, this is a continous learning and changing process.

JMHO

[StrongMedicine]

Now were getting past the fluff.

BASIC Preparation for many different contingencies is the best we can do for the bumps we most likely will face such as natural disasters, etc.... IE Katrina, earthquake, etc..

Several suggestions listed. From "invest in metals, stocks, oil" to "who cares I'm gonna take it if I need it" have been offered.

I do think we stand a pretty good chance, in our lifetimes, of our society being flushed down the toilet due to, albeit slowly and surely, from monetary collapse due to high energy prices, inflation or NWO. Or combination thereof. Ever think anybody will ever finally have enuff?

I don't know if MAD MAX is on our horizon but a POSTMAN or Blade Runner world certainly isn't that farfetched or really even that far removed from where we were a hundred and fifty years ago. The world moves on with or without us.

That said, all are really thinking about it. I now realize that 15K really isn't that much. I will take the advice on the training, both defensive firearms/EMT. I am definitely rethinking what I thought were the priorities as to metals, food, fuel, barter.

Good discussion and thanks for all the ideas. This is good food for thought.
Later,
SM

[FTW2012]

Originally posted by splattermatic
wow !:eek:

you guys got it all wrong...

if disaster does strike in some way, shape, or form...

i will have @160 gallons of fuel, over 120 in the aux., fuel cell in the bed, @70 gallons of drinking water in plastic containers,mre's, and other non parishable foods, enough for the wife and i for at least a month,guns,ammo, cash..etc...

back up to my self contained camper and go !!

who the hell wants to ride it out at home ??

mobile is the word...

i haven't seen one post about having some sort of camper with water,heat, and a/c yet ??

our camper is always fully stocked, with food stuff, charged batteries, a solar panel for recharging, and i have at least 8 full bottles of propane on hand at all times, use them for my gas grill, one gets empty, take it work and refill it,..the camper also doubles as a haul trailer, so what wont fit in the truck goes in there ...if time permits, grab garden hose and fill water holding tank theres another 40 gallons of water...

then hook up with the g man and his truck /camper combo and outta here we go...

chip,george and i spent 10 days in the mountains hunting, and wanted for nothing..propane fridge also keeps parishables longer lasting...

as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....

that simple.....

oh and spare tires,and d/c tools for quick changes, to include air pump,and hi lift jack, tow rope,,(ask g man about that thing), jumper cables...truck has 2 batteries and i have 4 for the camper...

couldn't be simpler....

as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....

that simple.....
??????????
What if someone else had that same idea about your neat camper,
food, water, fuel, women, or other stuff?
"Like minded people" could very well remove your belongings from you
for their own needs without concern for you or yours.
With all that stuff out in the open you will become a pretty obvious target for pirates / snipers / looters
I bet you wouldn't like it happening to you

[Treborer]

Originally posted by Mr. Pink
I'd invest most of it elsewhere on the offhand chance TEOTW doesn't happen and we only have to deal with the end of social security and corporate sponsored retirements at a time in our lives when our earning powers are waning. Afterall it would it not be prudent to worry about the most likely as well as the most adverse situations?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sound Advice.

Have 30 days ration of water/food etc. thats about $500.00 tops.

Ya have a wood stove for heat cooking, stored water, AA batteries for radio/flashlight,Solar rechargable, candles, Forget watching TV, and running the air cond.

Generators are for Pussies.

Relax, the worst can happen but just fight to the death, in place, and you won't care after, truly.

Until the last year investing in Gold was a foolish enterprise.

Go to Military .com and see what a soldier wants, candy, tp smokes ,booze.

Alls well don't sweat the petty stuff.

Keep a low profile...:| or your nieghbors will all show up at your house, armed and hungrey.

;)

[FREE RIFLEMAN]

Hi, my name is FREE RIFLEMAN, and I'm a Survivalaholic. This is like a support group for me. I had no idea there were so many folks around that think like me!

My GOOD Vehicle is a Power Stroke, I figure with a long-range tank, decent articulating suspension, covered bed for essentials, I'll be set once my mods are complete. I have a Primary plan, Secondary, as well as a Contigency and Emergency Plan. All of them hinge on leaving, unfortunately.
Someday, I'll have a retreat of my own.

[splattermatic]

ftw2012,

i am well aware of what i have and that other will too..

that's why i have enough fire power to try to keep what i have and survive..

if i get sniped or taken out by whatever method, i don't have to worry about anything any more ...
they can have whatever it is i have and i hope they survive and go on..

survival of the fitest...i wasn't fit enough....

i am not afraid to die, it is a fact of life, we all one by one will close our eye's one last time and become part of the earth again...

i do not want to die, but alas we cannot hide from it, death will find us all at some point...

i will try my hardest using all available resources in this kind of scenario, to make it as long as i can...but, my demise is when it comes...hopefully peacefully and in my sleep...

life is short, eat desert first...

and enjoy each day for it may be your last....that's why you see sooo many pictures posted by me showing how i live my life and what i see and do most days, hoping that others stop and smell the roses along the path of life, and stop being in the rat race of life..

sit back someday, and watch the sun rise and how clouds move, or at the end of a real hectic day, just stop and watch the sun set and all the colors god makes for us to enjoy..

or even stop and watch a rabbit move about your yard or in the wilds and learn what it is he does where he moves and why, same with any critter you see...

im done...

[TheOtherChris]

Originally posted by splattermatic
wow !:eek: as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....

that simple.....

That implies that you will steal from or even kill the old lady next door for what you want.

If that is truly how you feel, you are not to be trusted in ANY situation.
If you believe that honor should be dicarded when it no longer suits you, how can others know when you can be trusted and when you can not?

Personally, I can't imagine a situation where I would willingly harm an innocent to protect my own hide and wouldn't want to trust my family and neighbors to someone who would.

I have heard of some that only want a suppressed 22 rifle and night vision so they can steal what they want.
They better stay away from my AO or I will own a suppressed 22 rifle w/ NVG and the dog will eat well for several days.

[gunplumber]

Originally posted by TheOtherChris


That implies that you will steal from or even kill the old lady next door for what you want.

If that is truly how you feel, you are not to be trusted in ANY situation.
If you believe that honor should be dicarded when it no longer suits you, how can others know when you can be trusted and when you can not?

Personally, I can't imagine a situation where I would willingly harm an innocent to protect my own hide and wouldn't want to trust my family and neighbors to someone who would.

I have heard of some that only want a suppressed 22 rifle and night vision so they can steal what they want.
They better stay away from my AO or I will own a suppressed 22 rifle w/ NVG and the dog will eat well for several days.

Amen. People with that attitude are quickly buried in unmarked graves. Back in the old days, they were called brigands or bandits, and people who never much liked each other would band together to rid themselves of the scourge.

[splattermatic]

oh, i'm just a mean nasty guy with a heart of gold..
you read too much into it...
ain't gonna explain it, but i am not about to kill granny over a loaf of bread..

just sayin that when it get's to that point i think all of us will do whatever it takes to survivie..
and still be civi about it..

and yeah, i'm going to be owning a suppressed .22, soon as the paperwork clears...and it aint for night time stalking either...just cuz i can own one...

nuff said...

[the gman]

You guys are reading WAY too much into the comments by Splat. Especially when you don't even KNOW him.:eek:

I am fortunate to call him my best friend. I would trust him with my life, my wife & even my Poyer.:wink:

What I think some of you either are ignorant of or wish to ignore is this: the human being is at heart, a disgraceful, dirty animal. When the SHTF, we soon see many of the undesirable traits rising to the top, ergo, NO & the Superdome fiasco.

Do you really think you are any different, biologically, to the Serbs, the Russians, Nazi's or any other group of humans who in modern times, have committed some of the most heinous crimes against other humans?

Nope, you ain't. And I got news for ya too, if you think you are all so friggin' high & mighty, wait until your baby girl is crying to ya, bones showing thru her skin 'cos she's so damn hungry & then see how long granny next door with a buncha food that won't share lasts........ :devil:

Some of you armchair warrior types really amaze me. You have ZERO idea what it's like to be in a situation where it's you (& in this case, and your family) or someone else that gets to live. When it comes down to it, you can't buy your way out of it, you can't argue yer way out of it, reason don't work nor does anything else other than unmitigated, raw violence or you are the corpse. Are you prepared to take that step or not?

Sheesh, reality check required or what?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

In the world we are talking about, normal rules of polite society are over, finished, done. Some of you guys really don't know either what you are truly capable of or what it's like to be in that kinda dog eat dog situation.

Sure, in an ideal world, everyone will share & be happy. Sadly, history & human nature has shown us that that simply ain't the case.

All I intend to do is to prepare as much as possible for the potential situations that I think are possible or even probable. I know exactly what I am capable of & I say again, I'm damned glad to count upon Splat to be there with me.

If the reality of that is too much for some of you to handle, maybe you need to either take stock of your life & capabilities to date or take up knitting & wait for the more prepared to survive whilst you go down of starvation.

On a really serious note, scenarios such as we are discussing here are, often times deeply disturbing to contemplate. We have to look inside ourselves & truly, truly discern who & what we are. WHAT would you do, if you absolutely HAD to?

We ain't talking about rape, out & out thieving or murder for the sake of it, we're talking about SURVIVAL. How long do you seriously think some of the head in the sand, liberal, latte drinking morons on the West & East coasts are gonna last in the event of a total breakdown of our society? I submit not very long. I also submit that the criminal scum who also have not prepared but will try to loot what they can will not last long against determined, prepared folks.

Ghetto spray & pray don't work against accurate, effective fire from trained, cool headed marksmen.

It's gonna be Darwin in full effect, question is: are you prepared to be at the top or the bottom of the evolutionary chain??:confused: As always, YMMV & goodwill to all here.:angel:

[splattermatic]

wow !
i couldn't have explained that any better ....:bow:

i am humbled by your comments.....

[Powderfinger]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by the gman
[B]I dunno what you mean mate? Gotta be specific on the scenario man, what may or may not apply in one disaster or problem depends entirely on the circumstances.

As I said, the topic is surviving long term. The premise being the breakdown of TWAWKI. Wether due to an asteroid, super-volcano in Yellowstone, WWIV. If one has supplies for a year, (Food, water, shelter, fuel, weapons etc.) ,what would it take to preserve and defend it. I, by myself, aren't going to pull it off alone. So as I stated earlier, we (my family) would need to band together with like minded neighbors. This creates a whole set of new problems. I would envision it would take something like is seen in Afganastan. Tribal (neighborhood) "warlords" with an armed militia loyal to a local leader. The families of such working together. Bands of roving cut-throats would be the first to go. And as I said I have no real world training to pull this off. I, like most, will be flying by the seat of my pants. Of course if you are set up like gman hopes to be with several sections of land to live off of, you are going to have even more to protect and preserve. Just some musings and my HO.:wink:

[Windustsearch]

People wouldn't survive long as hunter/gatherers without establishing groups, and that will naturally happen anyway. Even when things are screwed, humans tend to help one another as much as possible. We are social critters.

Back to groups. In order to get what you need in most temperate climates, you need to have people out in small task groups to collect for the many nutritional needs of everyone because you cannot be in two places at once. Different resources that you need in many cases will only be harvestable at the same time as another, or possibly several.

[splattermatic]

that's what IED's are for !

[gunplumber]

Originally posted by the gman
You guys are reading WAY too much into the comments by Splat. Especially when you don't even KNOW him.:eek:

Really?

I don't think that: as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....that simple.... really leaves much room for creative interpretation. Seems like a pretty clear and straightforward declaration of his character to me., which I find both disturbing and disappointing.

[splattermatic]

internet gossip and reality are 2 different things mark...
i have my thoughts and ideas, but when it comes down to it...can i do what i said ???


arm chair warriors and such ,,,hmmmm??

dont be disturbed and disappointed, it aint happened and may never...

[the gman]

Ah, the written word!:D Often difficult to exactly pin down the writer's mood or his exact meaning by just looking at the words. For example: If I wrote "You bastage" in reply to someone, would I be insulting them, using the expression as one of envy or what? An even better example is the 'F' word. It can be used in so many ways to mean so many things, it could be difficult to accurately define the intent of the writer.

I'm not opening up that particular can of worms GP, but I think you found that many people mis-understood yer post about the school massacre in Beslan, no??

You had to explain yourself quite a lot there to accurately convey your intent & your point I think? Meanwhile, there are still a few people here who still didn't get your point on that subject, fair enough comparison?

To each his own, I know the man & there are few folks I'd trust with everything I own, love & desire; he is one of them.

Anyways. back to the thrust of the thread: well, yeah, guys are gonna have to team up with others to survive. I would suggest that you invest in your education & making friends, testing them out & seeing if you can get along with 'em.

Far as Splat & I go, when we talk or spend time together, it's like putting on a comfortable pair of shoes or a favorite jacket, we're just very comfortable in each other's company. I have another couple of friends like that in this world & count myself fortunate indeed.

Having good friends to help out is the best idea, plus, a man can never go wrong with having a real friend to hang with. Here's the maxim I use: a friend will help ya move, a GOOD friend will help ya move the BODIES!!!:eek: :rofl: :rofl:

I suggest you buy 'Mother Earth News', lotsa good info in there to start with & you can also buy a buncha back issues on CD. Educate yourself on what you need to do in order to grow crops, tend animals, reduce your dependence on modern fuel & light & generally give you some idea of what you might have to face.

Then, get yourself into a decent firearms training program, learn how to shoot & move, think tactically & generally get out of the shooting from the bench mentalilty. Practice, practice, practice. Make friends with the local meat processor, see if he'll let you watch whilst he butchers some animals or find folks who hunt & butcher their own.

If you are serious about this preparation stage, then you have to get up & do it, not lounge on the couch & think about it. Get in shape, go hiking in the nearest local wilderness where game hang out, learn the canyons, the mountains & the plains where you might have to go if something serious happens. Consider stashing stuff in the ground, far from prying eyes. (but make sure you KNOW where it is, don't count on GPS as they might be out of action), Where to stop?

Well, if you're serious, it NEVER stops. In the Brit Army, the constant buzz word was "WHAT IF?". What if my panzer gets blown up, what if the terrorists have set up a 'come on' to draw us into that area so they can get a clearer field of fire on to us, yadda, yadda, yadda.

You have to learn to think that way, what if we have to leave the house, what do we NEED to take? What if the power goes out/gas goes off/someone gets sick? What do we do, what do we need, what DON'T I know?

Knowledge is power baby!!!:wink: :shades:

Oh & as for folks coming to the gman's 'compound'?:devil: Be careful where you walk if you ain't a friend, the military taught me well, be amazed at whatcha can do with an ice cream tub & some nuts & bolts.......:] :skull:

[gunplumber]

Well, I certaintly disagree with you and think the comparison is invalid.

That I noted the Russians were receiving a small taste of the atrocities they committed in Grosney was not condoning attrocities by either party. To make such a leap, one would have to add all sorts of things I never wrote.

In contrast, Splat wrote quite painly that he would use whatever method available (one way or another) including shooting you (I have lead) to take from you something he wanted (you got what I want, I'm TAKING it). In his follow on post he asks rhetorically "i have my thoughts and ideas, but when it comes down to it...can i do what i said ???", but that is certaintly not a retraction - It merely asks rhetorically if he is physically able to kill and rob someone - a question that has no bearing on his announced intention. (and given his previous post on his training/capabilities, I think it is fair to assume he DOES have the capabilitiy to murder and rob you for your stuff, as he declared he would do.

Words have meaning. I take no meaning from Splats post other than the obvious one.

The "issues" relating to my post on Beslan was from illiterates who are unwilling or unable to differentiate a comparisonfrom an endorsement.

If Splat was just talking out of his ass (armchair commando) and really didn't mean what he plainly wrote, then he should simply say so.

Ironically, I unsubscribed from Mbomono's old FAL list just prior to Y2K when he also announced quite plainly that he would rob and steal to get whatever he felt he needed - and he not only the moderator, but an LE officer!

[splattermatic]

so what are you getting at mark ?
are you saying that i am a mean evil bad person ?

none of us here have had to go thru any type of made up scenerios like this, so what is your point ?

all i said was that IF this would ever happen i would do what i had to do to make it...

you keep harping on what i stated as tho i committed some kind of crime or i am wrong with what i said or even that i am such mean duranged person..??

what is your point that you are disappointed and disturbed by my statement ??
because we share different views on what we may do given this fantasy catastrophic occurance ????

humans are humans, we all have our thoughts and ideas, i have mine and you have yours....just because i look at my and mine survival differently than yours doesn't make for a constant badgering of a make believe world and what we would or wouldn't truely do given this hypothetical situation directed at me..

again, are you trying or implying anything about my honor or integrity, or my loyalty or patriatism (sp?) or my commitment to protecting my country ?

enough is enough...

[gunplumber]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by splattermatic
so what are you getting at mark ?
are you saying that i am a mean evil bad person ?

Yes, that appears to be the case. Those choosing robbery and murder, in my opinion, are "mean evil bad people"

none of us here have had to go thru any type of made up scenerios like this, so what is your point ?

My point is that I disagree with your choice of murder and robbery, and I am disappointed that you hold it.

all i said was that IF this would ever happen i would do what i had to do to make it...

Some of us would choose alternatives that didn't include murdering those who have what we wanted and taking it by force.

you keep harping on what i stated as tho i committed some kind of crime or i am wrong with what i said or even that i am such mean duranged person..??

Nope. Free speech. I do think it reflects poorly on the Fal Files and this forum specifically to have a moderator announcing his plans to rob and murder in crisis.

what is your point that you are disappointed and disturbed by my statement ??
because we share different views on what we may do given this fantasy catastrophic occurance ????

Yes - disturbed that anyone in general would hold that view, and disappointed that you in particular ( who I used to respect ) would turn out to be a thug.

again, are you trying or implying anything about my honor or integrity, or my loyalty or patriatism (sp?) or my commitment to protecting my country ?

I'm not implying anything - you made your "honor and integrity" (or lack thereof) quite clear to all with no prompting from me.

[splattermatic]

wow..
(shaking head)
i've got nothing further to say to you..
since i lost your respect, you have nothing to listen to from me either...

as you call me...

"thug" out...

[TheOtherChris]

Originally posted by the gman
You guys are reading WAY too much into the comments by Splat. Especially when you don't even KNOW him.:eek:

I am fortunate to call him my best friend. I would trust him with my life, my wife & even my Poyer.:wink:

Hey.
Words mean things.
The statement was unambiguous so I had to decide whether it was a declaration of intent or BS uttered from behind a keyboard.
I took it at face value because I had no reason to deem it otherwise.

As for the rest of your 'historical' analogies, Most of the people in those groups were still decent people that were terrorized by a savage minority. You can't judge the entire population of Nazi Germany by the SS.

I have spent time in Third World countries and have seen that even in dire situations, MOST people still respond with integrity.

If Splat doesn't truly feel that he will TAKE what he needs from others just to save his life then I will chalk the previous statement up to a late night response devoid of rational thought.
However, he has the opportunity to modify his statement so that it is representative of his intentions; ...or not.

['TUDE]

Gunplumber, you speak of alternative methods of survival other than obtaining life-sustaining materials by force? Now would that include all scenarios?

Face it, you just do not want to admit to yourself that if faced with certain circumstances, YOU would do what is needed to survive as well as protect/feed/provide medical care/etc. for your family.

As I can see in my minds eye very clearly of you in a fetal position, in a corner weeping while the SHTF, I doubt that initial reaction would last long.
When faced with the fact that unsavory people would be knocking on your door, could you not pull the trigger? When faced with hunger, would you not resort to extreme methods, including those of which you so ridicule, to obtain life-giving sustanance?

I doubt the day will come in our lifetime but it's always good to find out beforehand if you are going to eat or be eaten, so to speak.

Now, by you once again pointing fingers and digging in on yet another topic, you may want to reconsider mistaking Mark for an "armchair commando" or better yet a murderer as you claim. You speak of a man you do not know. You have once again been fondled to the point of verbal ejaculation and made an error in character. While many reserve the right to not express similar feelings as Mark, you better consider the fact that many more feel the same way he does. It's best that you find favor with many like-minded people as you to cuddle with when the SHTF in order to thwart just one as Mark.

And another thing. If you really find that by a person making such comments as Mark would somehow discredit him as a person and moderator on a friggin internet message board, I'd have to also reconsider why I whine about having a build backlog of a year while chewing on the keyboard all day and night.

Have a good evening and watch out for baaaaad men.

Oh, and your comment about Grosney? Here's your actual quote below and how you actually feel about such atrosities as killing children. (since you brought it up).

" Looks like those Chechyn Freedom Fighters got tired of the Russian Butchers leveling their cities and bombing their markets, and are taking the war into enemy territory. Good for them. The Russians want top play scorched earth? give them a taste of their own medicine."

[the gman]

Well, it seems some of you are wound a little tight or are unable to diferentiate between normality & what happens when society totally disintegrates....:rolleyes:

So, let me lay this one on you: TEOTWAWKI has happened. A virus has mutated & has effectively killed 90% of the US & world population. It has now naturally died out. You were prepared, left the populated area & survived, complete with your wife, 2 children & your dog. You are now 3 months into the crisis & have very little fresh water left, virtually no food left & you require insulin for your 5 year old daughter.

You run across a similar sized family, holed up in their ranch. They have EVERYTHING you need. You approached them for help. They have refused everything you have offered them, including your wife's sexual favours. (she's a very good looking girl:cool: ).

You notice that whilst talking with them, they aren't as well trained as you in the arts of war & you are 100% certain that if you were to attempt an overthrow of their ranch, you could do so. I say again, you have offered them everything you have, gold, silver, your labour, even your wife, they want nothing you have & refuse to even give your child the necessary medicine to save her life.

SO NOW WHAT DO YOU DO???:? Walk away, starve to death? Let dehydration kill you quicker & before that happens, watch your beloved girl child go into an diabetic coma & die before your eyes? Or do you bite the bullet & do what has to be done to ensure that you & those you love survive?

ONLY YOU KNOW THE ANSWER.....:confused:

Now as far as the rest of it is concerned:

We don't have to go back as far as the Nazi's to see what happens when society collapses, go rent the movie 'Hotel Rwanda'. Or were all the aggressors in that country just "following orders" too?? BTW, it wasn't just the SS who committed all the war crimes in Nazi Germany, a lot of the ordinary Germans were involved too.

Same as in Serbia & Croatia & right now in the Sudan. Forgotten all about the Taliban & Saddam & his cronies?? I said we were biologically the same, not necessarily the same in our beliefs or morals. Were you watching a different planet when we saw how quickly New Orleans went to ratshit & some elements of society rapidly reverted to the lowest common denominator??

Mark the Gun Plumber: Holy shit! Watch you don't hurt yourself when you fall off that ivory tower you're sat on!:devil: Talk about an arrogant attitude? Shit, I knew you were opinionated before but holy crap! Of course if someone compares what you said to something you disagree with, well of course it's not the same thing at all is it?

No, never because you're never wrong.....:rolleyes: If anyone mis-understands what you write, that's because they are illiterate or fools. Let's all bow down now before the mighty Gun Plumber, font of all knowledge, legend in his own lunch time, master of all he surveys......Spare me.

Faltitude already posted YOUR OWN words for you, your statement seems pretty clear to me or wait; what? That's not EXACTLY what you meant? We're supposed to have crystal balls to know what was in your mind when you committed those words to the screen? RIIIIIIIIIGHT. NOW I understand. One rule for you & one for everyone else.

Wearing a cowboy outfit in yer avatar suits you but it's about time you got down off your high horse & realised that just because others have different views on what they might or might not do in the scenario under discussion, doesn't make them bad, thuggish people.

Whatever, I don't know if you have real friends, frankly, I couldn't care less. It seems that the more you post, the more you reveal a character of extreme intolerance for anyone who fails to acknowledge your superiority in almost every aspect of life. A great shame as I & others have no doubt learnt much from your posts on many varied subjects. But, you really don't take criticism well do you?

Enough already.

I hope all here will ponder the scenario I have laid out & if the answer to it doesn't make you think & hope & pray it never comes to that but realise what you WOULD & COULD do should it happen, you must be short of a few marbles. Good night, God bless.:angel:

[TheOtherChris]

Originally posted by the gman
Well, it seems some of you are wound a little tight or are unable to diferentiate between normality & what happens when society totally disintegrates....:rolleyes:

So, let me lay this one on you: TEOTWAWKI has happened. A virus has mutated & has effectively killed 90% of the US & world population. It has now naturally died out. You were prepared, left the populated area & survived, complete with your wife, 2 children & your dog. You are now 3 months into the crisis & have very little fresh water left, virtually no food left & you require insulin for your 5 year old daughter.

You run across a similar sized family, holed up in their ranch. They have EVERYTHING you need. You approached them for help. They have refused everything you have offered them, including your wife's sexual favours. (she's a very good looking girl:cool: ).

You notice that whilst talking with them, they aren't as well trained as you in the arts of war & you are 100% certain that if you were to attempt an overthrow of their ranch, you could do so. I say again, you have offered them everything you have, gold, silver, your labour, even your wife, they want nothing you have & refuse to even give your child the necessary medicine to save her life.

SO NOW WHAT DO YOU DO???:? Walk away, starve to death? Let dehydration kill you quicker & before that happens, watch your beloved girl child go into an diabetic coma & die before your eyes? Or do you bite the bullet & do what has to be done to ensure that you & those you love survive?

I will defend and protect. I will not attack unprovoked.
I also would not consider exchanging my wife's honor for food.
Death before dishonor is not just a saying to be discarded when no longer convenient. It is a way of life that demonstrates to others that your honor is something that can be counted on; without reservation.


Originally posted by the gman

Now as far as the rest of it is concerned:

We don't have to go back as far as the Nazi's to see what happens when society collapses, go rent the movie 'Hotel Rwanda'. Or were all the aggressors in that country just "following orders" too?? BTW, it wasn't just the SS who committed all the war crimes in Nazi Germany, a lot of the ordinary Germans were involved too.

Same as in Serbia & Croatia & right now in the Sudan. Forgotten all about the Taliban & Saddam & his cronies?? I said we were biologically the same, not necessarily the same in our beliefs or morals. Were you watching a different planet when we saw how quickly New Orleans went to ratshit & some elements of society rapidly reverted to the lowest common denominator??

Rwanda, Serbia, Croatia, Sudan, Taliban, etc. are all examples of a violent, savage minority brutalizing the less fortunate by taking what they want because they have the power to do so. The majority of the people in those areas are not the perpetrators of these acts.

There is a reason why more people starve to death than are shot stealing food. It is because they believe it would be wrong to steal/kill to survive.

If the majority felt as you apparently do, the converse would be true.

Rationalizing immoral behavior by stating that everyone else would do it is not something in which I participate.

[FTW2012]

I think a couple of guys here are beginning to
regurgitate the taste of foot in their mouths

Face it, it is unacceptable to murder (#6), steal (#8)
or covet other's property (#10)
Any variation of the above in any order is not good at all.
It only proves you are dishonorable people.
Besides, what kind of scumbag pimps off his wife for food?

[WJ-Polish Guy]

You people make theorys on the stuff that happend before elswhere or it is happening as we speak somwhere else in the World.

15k that is alot of money to waste.

Get ready for whatever local dissasster you may face in your area. One two weeks top.

Global scale dissasster with dessintegration of current social contract, that is quite remote possibility. Just get gold if you have to prepare for that.
In the event nothing happen, you always can sell it back. Gold always work and can be stored whenever. Paper money of dessintergated entity is worthless. (American dollar was as strong comodity during the WWII as gold, only because US was untouched).
In the case of lesser bang, like fuel crisiss there is hyperinflation problem, agein gold is a king.

Thousands of dollars in ammo? What for? Unless you want to equip and TRAIN private army.
(I do not have data on pioneers ammo expenditure to survive in the wilderness of the West in 19th century, just can`t imagine them spending thousands of rounds a year...)
In addition whatever regime will instal itself to takeover the controle will most likely confiscate firearms and prohibit right to bare.

One thing I see not being mentioned here. What is your biggest asset during total colapse scenario is your extended family. You are not going to survive alone. Pull together whenever you are, come back of whatever...

And last most importand thing, get a skill you can sell!
If you are insurance salesaman, teacher, policeman and etc, you are out of luck. Learn a skill as a hobby. Carpenter, mason, butcher, bush doctor, gardner, and etc. Or you be digging ditches for bowl of soup.

[gunplumber]

Faltitude Gunplumber, you speak of alternative methods of survival other than obtaining life-sustaining materials by force? Now would that include all scenarios?

Face it, you just do not want to admit to yourself that if faced with certain circumstances, YOU would do what is needed to survive as well as protect/feed/provide medical care/etc. for your family. . .

When faced with the fact that unsavory people would be knocking on your door, could you not pull the trigger?

Of course I would. But this is another example of your complete imbicility. That I would not rob and murder for personal gain does not mean I would not defend myself against such actions - duh! Pull your head out.

When faced with hunger, would you not resort to extreme methods, including those of which you so ridicule, to obtain life-giving sustanance?


No, I would not rob and murder for food as Your Hero Splat advocates. I refuse to adopt your false alternative of "robbery and murder" or starving to death.

Somehow, people have used fair exchange and the compassion of others to avoid starvation throughout history.

By the way, that is why I emphasised training over supplies (kindof the point of htis thread). Its something that can never be robbed from you, confiscated by the powerful OZ, and its always they as a reuseable barter source.

Fix my generator and we both eat.

It seems that the more you post, the more you reveal a character of extreme intolerance for anyone who fails to acknowledge your superiority

Intolerant? ABSOLUTELY. Arrogant - Sure, why not? I have ZERO tolerance for those who lie, cheat and steal - and murder for that matter. The one who has been revealing character is yourself and splat - that you defend these actions.

Oh - I see - your honor and integrity are good so long as you haver a full stomach. When you get a little hungry, well, thats a different story. Then its okay to kill your neighbor down the street. He should have let you have his sandwich after all.

I can be arrogant. GOD established these rules. I just happen to agree with him. I'm sorry you don't.

[the gman]

I don't have my foot in my mouth. I am a realist. with the scenario I laid out, I was ATTEMPTING to make some of you THINK . Obviously, that is beyond some of you.:rolleyes: There was also an element of humour involved, with more than a little irony, a concept that also seems to be lost on some.

Fair enough. Let's dig a little deeper into the responses:

So those who won't attack unprovoked, you are saying that you will happily let your wife & children die before your eyes before you do ANYTHING that impinges upon your 'honor'? Listen, honour is important to me too, in THIS world, THIS life that we lead RIGHT NOW, I don't cheat, lie, steal, I take responsibility for my actions & do the 'right' thing. My word is my bond.

My feedback attests to that statement.

I'm attempting to make you realise that when the thin veneer of what we call 'civillisation' is stripped away by a event that leads to the complete breakdown of society, our actions will be guided by the situation we find ourselves in.

Any of you guys actually run the scenario past your WIVES? I submit that SHE might have a completely different idea of what you have to do in order to survive....:tongue: I bet she wouldn't be too happy with the idea that your honour was going to lead to the death of her & her children when it was very much avoidable.

If you think I'm some kind of monster or a bad, dishonourable person, fine. I don't know you, you don't love my family as much as I do, you don't pay my bills or have anything to do with me & mine so your opinion of me is worth exactly what I'm paying for it, the square root of f*ck all.

Survive at all costs? You're damn straight. Are you so naive as to be unable to distinguish between actions you have to take when you're in a fight for your life & those you take when everything is fine & dandy? I guess so.

Chris, you have avoided or missed the point I am trying to make several times now. In Rwanda, it was certainly the MAJORITY who were either murdering the minority or supporting them in their aims. It seems you refuse to acknowledge that biologically, we are the same human beings. Ergo, ALL of us have that level of potential for evil within us. What prevents us from falling to that level is our personal belief system, our upbringing & yes, the restraints placed upon us by the society in which we live.

Strip away those restraints, dissolve society & you have the events that happened in NO. I would also submit that many people are victimised because they lack the COURAGE to take action & fight back. Otherwise, how did X million Jews get marched off to concentration camps by only a few thousand Nazi's??

My father fought in WW2. Afterwards he transferred to the Royal Military Police. In early 1946, he was called to a Displaced Person's (DP) camp that had over 5000 people from all over Europe in it & they were rioting (I forget why). My father was called because he spoke fluent German & a smattering of other languages.

On arrival at the camp, he saw all the DP's, shouting, breaking furniture & throwing items around & at the MP's guarding the camp. He grabbed his Sten gun, ordered the gate be opened & marched right into the middle of the crowd. He cocked his Sten & fired a long burst right over the heads of all the DP's. He then changed magazines & ordered the now VERY quiet crowd to disperse back to their huts or the next burst was going into the crowd at waist height. The crowd dispersed as ordered & the situation was over.

My point? ONE man with the will & the courage to do what needed to be done imposed his will over 5000 other people. IF they had decided to rush my father, he maybe could've killed a few of them but he would have been stomped into the floor. Why didn't they do so? HUMAN NATURE. He was perceived to be the Alpha male, he dominated them & they rolled over. This is the pattern repeated throughout history. The strong survive, the rest go to the wall.

How will you react when you're in that situation? I submit you'll never know until it's time for the rubber to meet the road. I've been there, I know how I'll react & I'm comfortable with whatever I need to do.

I hope & pray that we never find ourselves in such dire times, Lord knows I'm not looking forward to it but I accept that our behaviour has to be modified in order to suit the circumstances we find ourselves in. Until such times, you'll find many people here who do actually know me & think I'm a pretty nice guy. As always, YMMV & have a good day, I'm going to.:biggrin:

[the gman]

BTW, GP et al, ya might wanna take a look at the poll happening on this subject, most folks don't have an idea what they'd do. But they seem to be saying that if it boils down to it, all bets are off.

As for the rest of your comments, I think I already addressed them; see your opinion of me is worth what I paid for it.

[TheOtherChris]

Originally posted by the gman

So those who won't attack unprovoked, you are saying that you will happily let your wife & children die before your eyes before you do ANYTHING that impinges upon your 'honor'?

"Happily"? No. But I will not kill someone else's wife and children to save mine unless attacked.

Originally posted by the gman
Listen, honour is important to me too, in THIS world, THIS life that we lead RIGHT NOW, I don't cheat, lie, steal, I take responsibility for my actions & do the 'right' thing. My word is my bond.

From your posts, I have to infer that your your word and bond could be retracted if you decide that it is time to renegotiate because conditions changed.
That means that it can't be relied upon.

Originally posted by the gman
Any of you guys actually run the scenario past your WIVES? I submit that SHE might have a completely different idea of what you have to do in order to survive....:tongue: I bet she wouldn't be too happy with the idea that your honour was going to lead to the death of her & her children when it was very much avoidable.

Actually, I did. She and my adult children agree that "wrong" is wrong and it has nothing to do with situational ethics.

Originally posted by the gman
Survive at all costs? You're damn straight. Are you so naive as to be unable to distinguish between actions you have to take when you're in a fight for your life & those you take when everything is fine & dandy? I guess so.

The actions I take have many variables.
But they also have constants. My ethics and moral code allow for killing an attacker. They do not allow for knowingly and actively killing innocents.

Your ethics and moral code appear to be more fluid.

Originally posted by the gman
Chris, you have avoided or missed the point I am trying to make several times now. In Rwanda, it was certainly the MAJORITY who were either murdering the minority or supporting them in their aims.

There is a difference, albeit subtle, between activly participating in evil and a failure to prevent it from happening.

Originally posted by the gman
It seems you refuse to acknowledge that biologically, we are the same human beings. Ergo, ALL of us have that level of potential for evil within us. What prevents us from falling to that level is our personal belief system, our upbringing & yes, the restraints placed upon us by the society in which we live.

Strip away those restraints, dissolve society & you have the events that happened in NO.

I acknowledge that potential, but also recognize it is a choice as to whether we succumb to evil. Unlike statutory restraints, ethical and moral restraints are not "stripped away". They are voluntarily removed.

Originally posted by the gman
How will you react when you're in that situation? I submit you'll never know until it's time for the rubber to meet the road. I've been there, I know how I'll react & I'm comfortable with whatever I need to do.

You've "been there"? :uhoh:
You were faced with a situation where you had to steal from or kill an innocent in order to survive??? :eek:

If that is the case and not an embellishment to bolster your position, it dramatically changes the tone of the discussion.

Originally posted by the gman
I accept that our behaviour has to be modified in order to suit the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I believe that sums up our differences as I do not accept that as inevitable.

I do not believe in situational ethics.

While all are entitled to believe otherwise, I believe in an afterlife that is eternal. I will be judged by what I do in this life; especially when the choice is difficult. I believe that character is forged in the furnace of adversity.
I believe that, unlike justifiable homocide, murder is ALWAYS WRONG and that I will be held accountable for all of the choices I make in this life.

My word is my bond unless I am released by those to whom it is given.

The Other Chris

"A professional is someone who does his best work when he doesn't feel like it."

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Originally posted by the gman
....

.....
My point? ONE man with the will & the courage to do what needed to be done imposed his will over 5000 other people. IF they had decided to rush my father, he maybe could've killed a few of them but he would have been stomped into the floor. Why didn't they do so? HUMAN NATURE. He was perceived to be the Alpha male, he dominated them & they rolled over. This is the pattern repeated throughout history. The strong survive, the rest go to the wall.

...


I do not think you are judging human nature properly gman, your pop wasn`t perceived to be alfa male, he would got knife in his liver first night he would spend among those people unguarded.
He was just a thread with no defende ageinst, man with the gun in gunless society. It is ageinst human nature to perform suicide action, people will not die for nothing, specialy not because food was served cold.


But you may be on something here pointing to the camps. There were certainly people in the camps (whatever German or Russian...) who did what plumber say, unfortunately they didn`t survive.
We used to call it Lagerman syndrome (Syndrom czlowieka zlagrowanego). One thing I learn was one never know what the individual reaction would be. If he choose to survive regardless of the "price" or choose to die.
That is to be answered under actual cicumstances, not in warm house on full stomach.

[edhall_consultant]

These topics always seem to turn into attacks on other people.

I really think that people are just scared and instead of preparing they attack other people.

That leads me back to my conclusion that MY family must be prepared because others just won't do it!.

Not taking sides, just stating an obvious point.

NO I wouldn't shoot a un attacking family. I would however shoot an attacker quickly, decisively, with night vision before they even knew what hit them, if my wife didn't do it first.

Ok I'll go back to loading my 5000 9mm GDHP's now.

[Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH]

Wow, what an amazing thread.

If SHTF I'd rather have GP for a neighbor.

My AR10 and D-760 Gen 3 weaponsight would be aimed in the general direction of Gman and Splat. :D

Hey you two, post pics of your wives. If they're suitable for barter I'll pack away a few extra goodies in my stash. We just might able to do some business. :biggrin:

Just don't get your feelings hurt if they decide to stay camped with me. :wink:

[Sig220]

Ahhhhhhhh Shucks RSU, you gotta be able to shoot 'fore you scare anybody:biggrin:

Don't none of you cotton pickers come by my place if this pipedream happens unless you call first!!!!:wink:

Don't want the buzzards getting really fat, do ya?:shades:

[the gman]

Originally posted by Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
Wow, what an amazing thread.

If SHTF I'd rather have GP for a neighbor.

My AR10 and D-760 Gen 3 weaponsight would be aimed in the general direction of Gman and Splat. :D

Hey you two, post pics of your wives. If they're suitable for barter I'll pack away a few extra goodies in my stash. We just might able to do some business. :biggrin:

Just don't get your feelings hurt if they decide to stay camped with me. :wink:

Watch out for a BIG Priority mail shipment coming your way Greg, bin tryin' ta get rid of her for years......:rofl: reckon she might be on her way back after you find out her very expensive tastes tho'...& she's a mean shot too, it's not ME you have to watch out for; for a committed Baptist, she has very definite ideas on her babies dyin' thru the lack of someone sharing in fair exchange.....:]

AR10 don't skeer me, haveta be a hellva shot from TX anyways. (that is if'n ya can git it to work reliably in the first place:tongue: )

[Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH]

"Watch out for a BIG Priority mail shipment coming your way Greg."


Whew! You better hope she doesn't read that! It could be taken the wrong way, and YOU'LL get eaten. :eek:




Thanks for taking it in the spirit it was intended. :D

[the gman]

No worries Greg, I seen you got yer meaness out the way down in DB, heck, it's only da innernet after all is said & done.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Some folks is wound a leeetle too tight & I don't mean you, heck, I remember you were gonna bug me for some info on Northern Ireland awhile back.

PM me with your addy & I'll loan you some books to read on the subject. I'll stick my phone # in too & you can ask away....:)

[PARA FN FAL]

People will react the way that they were trained. No one checks the age of the enemy before they are engaged. And many people talk tuff but when it comes to backing up what they say they show their true colors. On that same note I have seen some very kind hearted people that put up a hell of a fight when thay were pushed in to it. So you are right this thread is worth what I paid for it.

[Powderfinger]

Splatt,
I don't know you from Adam. I could only surmise your intentions by what you wrote. Your writing style always seems pretty straight forward leaving little to read between the lines. My posts were serious attempts (with a little sarcasm, I admit) at getting some education. Maybe yours wasn't serious. Since your long term survival plans showed little fore-thought beyond what you can haul in a camper, I may be able to give you the benefit of the doubt in that your pre-editted post #24 was given the same lack of fore-thought and you engaged your keyboard before your brain. Maybe your "arm-chair" commando comment is a form of projection.
Maybe you have walked the walk rather than talk the talk and can kill with impunity. Again, I don't know you and couldn't care less, as I'm sure you couldn't about me and my opinions. None the less, I have learned a lot here in the last several days about varying mind sets and human nature. It's all good.:|

[gunplumber]

as for bartering silver or gold material......i got lead......if dire times....you got what i want, i'm TAKING it.....one way or the other.....


...THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU THAT, YOU WOULD MAKE ME OUT TO BE A COLD BLOODED KILLER...

... ALL KNOW ME FOR BEING A KIND, CARING, GIVING, OPEN MINDED CHARACTER WITH A HEART OF GOLD..

So far, all you have done is reiterate that you will rob and murder someone if you want what they have. Your curious "edit" on post #24 does not retract your oft-repeated immoral philosophy, all it does is equivocate on when you'd use robbery and murder to satisfy your "need".

Perhaps the reason I have "singled you out" for editorial commentary, is you are the most vociforous apologist for the morally reprehensible.

OR HAVE ANYTHING OTHER TO DO WITH ME OTHER THAN READ MY POSTS AND LOOK AT MY PICTURES.

Yep, thats what I have been doing. So sorry if my observation that robbery and murder are bad strikes such a nerve. Really though, the condemnation of robery and murder is not something I invented - its been around a while. I think Moses wrote something about once upon a time .. . .

[Temp]

Originally posted by the gman
He was perceived to be the Alpha male,

Well,.... maybe,... but it's more likely that he was perceived to be the only guy wid a gun,...

[Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH]

I know one thing Temp, if SHTF I'm coming afta' yer' .41 caliber Colt. :biggrin:

Better lock the back door and run for your life. :uhoh:

[Temp]

Originally posted by Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
I know one thing Temp, if SHTF I'm coming afta' yer' .41 caliber Colt. :biggrin:

Better lock the back door and run for your life. :uhoh:

lol,... I don't think that the people who hang out on forums such as this are the ones who will be getting their doors kicked in on SHTF day,....

,.... not more than once, anyway,...

Maybe you want to drop in on that guy down the road with the pot gut and the ponytail,... but be forewarned,..

All he has there to eat is wheat germ and rice cakes,.... maybe a bean sprout or two.

[Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH]

I sure have been lusting after that Colt you bought. What a fine revolver! What's the skinny on those guns and that caliber? I'm queer for .41 caliber guns anyways. I finally found an S&W Model 58 .41 mag PM me.

[the gman]

Hey GP, get off your high moral fcking horse, Moses also wrote about not coverting thy neighbour's wife, didn't stop you from what I heard so get bent you hypocritical twat.:redface:

[FTW2012]

Originally posted by Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
I know one thing Temp, if SHTF I'm coming afta' yer' .41 caliber Colt. :biggrin:

Better lock the back door and run for your life. :uhoh:

He won't be home
He'll be headed for the hills in a camper
You will need to track and hunt him down
But when you do find him and kill him
You can have all his stuff and women too