View Full Version : Minor rant or demographic reality?

November 27, 2005, 23:08
I'll be the first to admit that I live in the sticks and wouldn't have it any other way, including the local yocals. After spending much of my life hopping from city to city, state to state and country to country, I have found my slice of heaven (or pretty close to until I get back to Oklahoma).

Anyway, I find myself having little conversational topics to table when it comes to shooting skills while chewing the fat with my neighbors. These folks still have the mentality that walmart sells the only guns and ammo worth having. We'll talk critters, hunting, etc. but they just can't break away from the post-war mentality of surplus rifles being of any use. The usual comments abound like "we use to buy those stacked in trash cans for $5 each down at the feed store" and "they don't make ammunition for those things anymore and if you shoot that old surplus stuff, it'll blow your head off". You see where I am going with this?

After last weekends shoot/campout with fellow FALers, I was asked about the different types of weapons were on hand, what kind of targets and distances were we shooting, etc. I exclaimed that I was shooting my old surplus rifles with old surplus ammo at 400 yards and doing pretty derned good with iron sights. Well, you could have gone ahead and admitted I was from another planet by the quickly hushed conversation and the raised eyebrows.

Now, I've invited these boys out for a little target practice a few different times and have even offered to loan a rifle to the biggest critic for his evaluation but it's useless.

Sad these folks are missing out on a fun and important factor of shooting sports. Then again, I guess I look at them in the same strange way when they praise the versatility of a lever action .30-30 at a loooong 50 yard shot when taking a doe and patting themselves on the back for making such a stupendous shot.

My only idea at this point is to carry one of my "old surplus rifles" with me when hog hunting with them and proving just what an old warhorse can do. It'll be called a lucky shot for sure but at least the idea will be planted into thier noggins.

Rant off.

November 27, 2005, 23:19
Keep on ranting. I know where you are coming from. I just took a cull spike at 125 yards with an M-44. They thought I was insane taking the M-44 to the woods in the Hill Country (Camp Wood, Texas).

Took a VERY nice hill-country 10-point with a FAL at 75 yards the same weekend.

Both were taken with a single shot (both neck-shots at that).

Now they think I'm Daniel Boone.

November 27, 2005, 23:33
I'd say that is definately a demographic thing. I have seen a bit of that, but more geared toward long-range bolt guns.

Da Nerd
November 28, 2005, 03:54
Too much cousin to cousin inbreeding will do that.:rolleyes:

November 28, 2005, 06:11

Been there a few times 'tude. A few years ago I took that .270 of mine (USED to be mine :biggrin: ) and sat down with the sling taut and printed a respectable 3" group at 100 yds. THEN I did the same thing with my No. 4 Enfield, using milsurp ammo. A Johnny Deer Hunter looking on allowed as how the Ruger was a POS or I was a piss poor shot with it if it could do no better than that.

However, I don't see so good no more. When I was trying to hit the gongs at the shoot with my 03-A3, I had a good position, had the rifle held hard. Boy was I steady that morning. There coulda been a white elephant standing by the gongs and I woulda never knew it. :cry:

November 28, 2005, 17:45
I know a lot of people like that. They've got the same box of shells they bought with the gun four years ago since they shoot maybe two rounds before each season to determine that their scopes are still zeroed and then might shoot one or two deer that season. They buy all their guns new at Wal-Mart and only buy highly overpriced glossy box domestic commercial ammo. They see no need or have no desire to shoot or be involved with firearms other than that.

These people ostensibly support the second amendment, are likely NRA members (though usually not more serious organizations like GOA or JPFO), but as soon as you talk to them about thinkgs like the '94 AW ban, the '34 NFA, and BATF import restrictions their eyes glaze over and about all they can say is something like "hell, I dont care if'n they ban them guns, you can't hunt with them there mil'tary rifles anyway". I'm jaw-dropping astounded by the amount of ignorance and prejudice some of the people have about surplus and military style firearms ... even among former military and veterans! They have this idea of what firearms ownership is all about in their heads and to them, the second amendment is about preserving their right to HUNT. If for some reason they couldnt hunt, they would likely have no use for firearms for the most part. It astounds me that these people who I otherwise very much respect could have such an attitude. I mean, its their right to believe what they like, but it really does make me wonder how many Bubba and Elmer Fudd gun owners out there would ignorantly sell us all down the river in the name of protecting their deer rifles and duck hunting shotguns.

I've also seen similar prejudice against military style collectors and shooters from the bench rest paper punching crowd. Whenever you show up to the range they want to know how many MOA your FAL or M1A shoots and can't fathom why youd shoot at steel torso targets at long range off the bench in field positions and not care how close together your hits are. I try and let them shoot my rifles and they seem to like them, but are always asking whether they can mount long range optics and bipods on them and wondering why I use those nasty iron sights instead of some $2000 swarovski telescope. I'm also seeing a growing trend towards similarly prejudiced Mall Ninja CQB types at the range with their M4 clones all decked out with rails and all manner of pointless grips and gadgets all over em. The last time I was out at the range one of these guys decked out in his tatical shoelaces was baffled by my use of a full size 20" A2 upper, standard iron sights, and a fixed stock lower on my AR! He apparently wasnt aware ARs were available in anything other than M4s or A3/A4 flat tops festooned with rails, fancy red dot sights and gadgets.

November 28, 2005, 19:51
Well, I'm glad I'm not alone on this.
And Jerry, you were hitting closer than you think with that '03 of yours. Mighty nice rifle by the way.

Perdurabo, I think your right. As long as hunting and "hunting arms" are protected, the yahoos could care less if everything else is stripped away.
They forget the good old days of old fashioned turkey shoots, long range matches, and other sports of yesteryear whereby a frenzy of having the newest firearms provoked growth of an industry not solely supported by hunting. Which gives me a dern good idea. I just may have to host an old fashioned turkey shoot with the local yocals invited. Hmmm

November 28, 2005, 21:07
Originally posted by Faltitude
I just may have to host an old fashioned turkey shoot with the local yocals invited. Hmmm

Speaking of turkey shoots, we did not have one this year for thanksgiving. My son and I normally go down and see if we can win a turkey for dinner but not this year.

I hear folks all the time say how we don't need those ugly black rifles but I find myself drawn to them like flys to honey.

November 28, 2005, 21:35
the only snobery towards surplus rifles i've experianced has been from the mall ninja tactical types.most of the old timers that i hunt with had mausers and enfields as their first deer rifles.my dads first deer was shot with a k-98.when i bring the mosins and mausers to camp everybodys eyes light up:biggrin:

November 29, 2005, 00:39
Jeff it seems too often thast public school graduates have this attitude. People not raised with any real knowledge of this subject are swayed by the hype mongers in this. Too often a media mindset is their only influince which leads to some screwed up thoughts. Some media helped on the other hand, no matter how screwed up they got the weapons. Say "The Enemy At The Gate" really helped get some people interested in these older weapons. Often a question to them with a reference to a movie will open them up enough to listen. I know alot of people are very interested now in Mosin sniper replicas as well as K98 sniper rifles. These same people had no intrest before. Some of the new video games even show surplus weapons as accurate weapons getting new customers interested. Some of the bad knowledge also comes from some old line gun shops who don't know, or care to become familiar with surplus weapons. Seems that type has a big mouth and a grand lack of knowledge to share readily with the world!

Carp Killer
November 29, 2005, 23:40
I hear folks all the time say how we don't need those ugly black rifles but I find myself drawn to them like flys to honey.

So your one of the guys that crowd around the tables with all those "evil black rifles". I notice that at gun shows or the range, it's the rifles with pistol grips and long magazines that get the attention. And old military bolt actions too.

the only snobery towards surplus rifles i've experianced has been from the mall ninja tactical types.

They don't bother me, I consider the source.:wink:

November 30, 2005, 03:48
Faltitude's neighbors expressing their doubt
when told of 400 yard shooting with a surplus rifle.

December 04, 2005, 14:20
Show up with a Mauser and a tin of 8mm ammo, mention it was the best hundred bucks you ever spent. Watch their ears perk up. Once you have their attention, pass around the latest AIM Surplus color flyer and let the fun begin.

December 04, 2005, 20:22
Just before deer season starts in Illinois and Wisconsin, our club (we're on the border) has "Sight-In Days." This is the chance for the would-be bambi slayers to check the zero of their rifles or shotguns for $5 per firearm.

Some of my most memorable clients were (1) the "good ole boy" with the .30-30, (2) the "mighty hunter" with his .30-06 BAR (self-loader Browning -- NOT the M1918A2 BAR), and (3) the "bambi sniper" with another scoped .30-06 BAR.

Number 1 case, the "good ole boy", brought out an ancient .30-30 (fairly decent shape) and sat down at the 50 yard line. His shot group could be covered by a sombrero. I asked to see his ammo. I don't think he ever threw an old .30-30 round away. His box contained a mix of .30-30 of different bullet weights, designs, manufacturers, and ages. I told him he had a great antique cartridge collection, but he was never going to be able to shoot any kind of group with it. I gave him a "rain check", told him to go to Wal-Mart or K-Mart and buy three boxes of Remington .30-30 (then on sale). Come back with the boxes and zero his rifle. Use the other ammo for informal plinking at tin cans. When the Remington ran low, go out and buy another three boxes.

Noumber 2 case, the "mighty hunter", brought out his scoped BAR. The rifle looked like it had had a hard life; the wood was in pretty sad shape and the metal showed signs of corrosion. The rifle looked as if he'd been caught in a monsoon rain storm and had parked it wet in the basement for the last year. Before our guy sat down to shoot, I decided to check is bore with the good old "thumbnail reflector." When I looked down the bore, I saw a fuzzy hole with no rifling. I told the guy that he wasn't going to shoot that rifle on our range because it was unsafe. I told him to take it into the club house to see if they could clean out the barrel and check if the chamber was pitted. I told him that while even a pitted barrel might clean up and shoot well, a pitted chamber would probably result in a ruptured cartridge case. In the case of a pitted chamber, he'd have to replace the barrel. Our shooter wasn't happy, but he didn't blow up the rifle. I don't know whether the barrel cleaned up or not.

Number 3 case, the "bambi sniper", had a "wandering zero" problem with his scope. We checked the scope mount mount; the screws were tight. We checked the rings; the screws were tight. We checked the ammo; it was the same lot number and same brand and same bullet. Everything else appeared OK. So I watched him shoot another round and saw the forearms MOVE! We checked it and the front screw that held the forearm cap and forearm to the barrel was loose. We tightened it and the rifle planted the next three shots within 3/4-inch. I told the shooter that on his way home, he should stop by the auto parts store and get some of the blue Loctite 242 thread locker. When he got home, he should remove the screw, put it on the threads, and then tighten it and leave it that way. The shooter then told me that he could understand why the screw was loose. He'd taken the gun to the local sports shop for a tune-up and cleaning before he came to the range. I looked at him like he was from Mars. Here was a guy that DID NOT KNOW HOW TO CLEAN AND MAINTAIN HIS OWN RIFLE. Unbelieveable!

These guys are like a lot of hunters that go through our range. They know enough to go out and shot a bambi, but don't know a lot about firearms. They are amazed when I talk about shooting at 200 yards and longer. To them, the 100 yard range is a challenge! And YES, these same guys would sell out any other shooting sport as long as their pet firearm -- rifle, shotgun, or pistol wasn't on the list of proscribed equipment.


December 04, 2005, 20:38
Originally posted by MasterGunner
And YES, these same guys would sell out any other shooting sport as long as their pet firearm -- rifle, shotgun, or pistol wasn't on the list of proscribed equipment.


kinda painting with a broad brush arent ya?

December 06, 2005, 00:46
Next time Elmer Fudd rides you about your "evil weapon," ask him how he'd like it if you held a press conference, showing how easy it was to convert his "sporting" 870 into one of the most deadly concealed weapons in existance, with a hacksaw and 5 minutes.

Then ask him about his "sniper rifle" he hunts deer with.

Maybe he'll get the point.

Carp Killer
December 06, 2005, 09:42
Next time Elmer Fudd rides you about your "evil weapon," ask him how he'd like it if you held a press conference, showing how easy it was to convert his "sporting" 870 into one of the most deadly concealed weapons in existance, with a hacksaw and 5 minutes. Then ask him about his "sniper rifle" he hunts deer with. Maybe he'll get the point

Have you ever talked to a pile of rocks?:tongue:

December 06, 2005, 10:48
I and a shooting buddy hunt jack rabbits in West Texas. Hed met a young LEO about 23-25 years old that wanted to come along hunting. My buddy Jimray uses a SMLE #4 Mark 2. I use my Imbel receiver FAL-instein. The new guy shows up with a LEO only post ban flattop M-4 with at least two tactical flashlights and a corkscrew. He did have a nice ACOG sight on the piece.

We got out to the place and started potting jacks at I at 75 -80 yards Jimray at 100-120 yards using sling and shooting sticks. With the soft point bullets we like to use the .303 and my 7.62 just knocked a fist size chunk out of em or left them twitching in their tracks, After wed shot 3-4 rabbits the new guy asks us to leave some for him. He waited until we were like 30 yards from a standing jack and he shot the rabbit. It sat there and he shot it again. As the rabbit starts to run Jimray shot the backend off of it with his Enfield. The kid was using M2 ball. The rabbit was dead on its feet, lung shot twice. The 5.56 rounds just passed through it. The next one he shot he hit the shoulder blade and rolled the rabbit. It jumped up and ran 40-50 yards and took to the broomweed. I put it down for the kid.

On the way back to town the kid asks us where we learned to shoot and why we used surplus crap like we did. Jimray looked at him and said, We shoot what works and learned to shoot by shooting. No one taught us a class. We just listened to the old farts in the feed store and worked our way up.

Next time I went to the range, that kid had a SOCOM M1A with a plain glass stock and iron sights on the 200 yard range learing himself how to deal with heat haze and crosswinds.

Clyde the Pointer
December 06, 2005, 11:53
Auslander: That's about the best post I've read on the files in quite awhile. Temp? Where did you find that pic of me and my brother?