radiation detectors?

[Big Toe]

Has anyone purchaced a Terra-P dosimeter they look like a quality meter from ecotest. I don't know too much about them and would like to hear what others might know about them and other units.

[Big Toe]

here is a link to a site to buy it http://www.sensorsportal.com/HTML/E-SHOP/PRODUCTS_7/terra_p.htm

[Big Toe]

Doesn't anyone know anything about radiation detectors? Mr. Rawles ?

[Terick]

Here's a site with some good reading material.

http://www.ki4u.com/


and

Chap. 10 on meters, from Nuke War Surv. Skills -Kearny

http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p921.htm


Biggest problem I have with spending much money on that sort of thing is how do you test it?

[hso]

The easiest form of check source for any beta/gamma detector is to order an exempt button source from any instrument supplier. These are small sealed sources specifically made to check performance of radiation detectors.

Next easiest is to get one of the lantern mantles that contain thorium. These make handy field check cources and are often taped to the side of survey instruments (where permitted).

Lastly grab a piece of antique "Fiesta Ware" and use it. The colored glazes were uranium salts. Yellow and yellowgreen antique "Vaseline" glass from before WWII makes a reasonable low level check source as well.

[Big Toe]

I was told by the Prof., Dr. Sergey Y. Yurish,
Vice President of Ecotest that the model that wold be best for a dirty bomb or reactor accident is the (TERRA. Dosimeter- Radiometer MKS-05) for $194.00 US


http://www.sensorsportal.com/HTML/E-SHOP/PRODUCTS_7/terra.htm

I don't know if I will ever need it but if I do my family will be safer by controling the amount of radiation they are getting. I can spend the $200.00 for that.:uhoh:

[McDobber]

Just remember, a check source is just that, a single point check. One does not verify the linearity of a meter with a single spot check. I have seen many dosimeters appear to be good on the low and mid points of a scale, and be off the scale on the top end. The same is true with the Eberlines, Victoreens, the PDR-43s and the PDR- 56s, etc.

Of course, what are you trying to detect? Alpha, Gama or some other type of emmision? Gamma only, right?

[hso]

No detector protects you from radiation and has little real value in controlling the amount of radiation a family might receive. In the event of the highly improbable reactor accident or "dirty bomb" it's pre-planning and preparation that matters. You should be focused on getting out of the area under the plume immediately instead of trying to decide what a field instrument is telling you. This means moving perpindicular to the plume axis without crossing the axis without delay. More important than a field radiation detector is having a plan and knowing the wind direction, the routes you would need to take, and acting promptly to get out. A $200 detector can't help with this and is probably not the best way to spend your money to truely protect your family.

Spend it on maps, practice runs, communications gear, disposable coveralls, gloves, etc.

[Bama]

Knowing when you are clear of the plume is nice, so a detector would be handy. And if the there was a significant dirty bomb event, it would be nice to have a detector around to check storebought stuff for contamination. Something may have been shipped through the event area, and you wouldn't have a clue it was contaminated without a G/M meter of some kind. A CDV 715 for Nuke attack ( and to know if the area is clear), a CDV 700 to check stuff for contamination.
There could be more than one kind of S in a SHTF scenario. Some may think you are acting like a "tinfoil hat" guy, but wouldn't others say the same about those cases of milsurp we all have stashed?
eBay is fun to check for this kind of stuff, too. Under Geiger counter, or radiation meter.

[Big Toe]

I understand the about the wind and fallout and the wind from Chicago almost always goes away from us. The protection comes from me knowing if we are still getting zapped or not there is no other way to know other then the fedgod telling me and I always take care of myself without the help of others.

The same thing was said every place there is a reactor, it will never fail. But all one has to do is look at all the accidents that has happened all over the world even here in the USA. Three mile island comes to mind. Chernobyl wasn't the only one that failed, how about the many nuke test that have been blown all over the west of this country and the subs under the ocean leaking into our food sytem. I think it is a good investment not only for terrorist but in this day we should all be aware of what is out there. If there is an event anywhere in the world it will be to late to get one.

When Chernobyl went south europe had to quit eating some vegitables and milk was contaminated too through the cows.

[fire for effect]

Radiation Detector??? Isn't that what the neighbors back yard dog is for???

[Treborer]

A "Dirty -Bomb could occur and you'd never know.

I mean the earth has had 2500 nuclear bombs detonated, plus Chernobyl.

Most of the bombs were underground but Here it is-You have all your life been Irradiated- it's why we have "Rap Music", put's people into thier "Lizard Brainstem"

Dirty -Shorts are more dangerous! Wash your hands sailor Jeez...
:rofl:

[machinist]

Not trying to hi-jack the thread, just quick question. What about the pills that supposedly block thyroid intake of radiation ? Thanks

[tac-40]

Radiation from nuclear weapons is what the detectors are for. Dirty bombs generate a large amount of contaminated material mostly in the form of dust. Spending your money on protective suits and respirators would be the best bet. Decontamination by cleaning (showers) to remove any material in contact with the skin and then donning the suits and respirators will minimize exposure. Alpha and Beta radiation will not penetrate the suit and clothing, but are very dangerous if the particles are injested or breathed. Gamma and neutron radiation will penetrate most things in the area and are the types of radiation you cannot rapidly protect yourself from. I am a little rusty, but Gamma and Neutron radiation are predominately derived from fission, not from dirty bombs.

[Terick]

Potassium Iodide pills, KI. Info's at the same site above.

http://www.ki4u.com/#100

They sell the stuff so you have to read their pitch with that in mind, but fwiw it seems to be pretty much on track. It's of limited value, but it works for that particular application and it's not too expensive.

[Falfegnügen]

Knowing where to go and what to wear is very important. But knowing when to do it is even more important. Humans can't see radiation, so that detector is your eyes and ears. Otherwise, what are you going to do, wear suits and gasmasks for weeks on end, guessing when it's safe to take them off? I don'' think so.

It's no surprise that professional radiation worker training always is centered on knowing the radiation levels - whether with a survey meter, dosimeter, or whole-body counter.

If you wish to survive a serious nuclear event, in my opinion, you better have proper dosimeter, protection, a plan, and the knowledge to use it. Unless you just want to rely on plain old dumb-luck.

[Rawles]

In today's world, radiation monitoring should be part of every family's disaster planning.
At the very minimum, you should have a dosimeter and a rate meter (typically these look like fat ball point pens), plus a charger for re-zeroing their drift hairs. (And of course a few alkaline or NiMH batteries to run the charger.) The dosimeter tells you your TOTAL (accumulated) dose, starting whenever "it" happens. The rate meter tells you HOW FAST you are accumulating those nasty roentgens. So you need one of each.

On the "great to have" (but not crucial) list:

1.) A keychain "Nukalert" detector. (Available from several SurvivalBlog advertisers.)

2.) A radiac meter. ("Geiger counter"). These are often found up for auction at eBay. You'll want one to determine whether or not something that you might buy and bring home has been contaminanted. The radiac meter will be an important piece of equipment in the event of a dirty bomb attack, especially as things get "back to normal." There will undoubtedly be stupid looters that sneak into contaminated areas to loot for a quick buck. Those items might eventually find their way all over the country.

[GySgt D]

I don't have any experience with the specific models mentioned, but I made it a point to have radiation detection gear early-on when I first started preparing on something other than a shoe-string budget.

Specifically, I have an A/N VDR-2 radiac meter which runs off of three common 9 volt batteries. Run time is listed at about 120 hours. It uses grays, vice roentgens. Illuminated digital display, with programmable audio and visual alarms for both rate and accumulated dose.

I also have a NIB West German surplus dosimeter set, containing ten dosimeters with different scales (so you can use what is appropriate to the occasion), and a charger.

....And just for kicks, a Kearney Fallout Meter for good measure (no pun intended).

[Treborer]

Originally posted by tac-40
Radiation from nuclear weapons is what the detectors are for. Dirty bombs generate a large amount of contaminated material mostly in the form of dust. Spending your money on protective suits and respirators would be the best bet. Decontamination by cleaning (showers) to remove any material in contact with the skin and then donning the suits and respirators will minimize exposure. Alpha and Beta radiation will not penetrate the suit and clothing, but are very dangerous if the particles are injested or breathed. Gamma and neutron radiation will penetrate most things in the area and are the types of radiation you cannot rapidly protect yourself from. I am a little rusty, but Gamma and Neutron radiation are predominately derived from fission, not from dirty bombs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on, protect your lungs. Particulates that are "Alhpha Emitters" radiate out to about 1 cm, but if lodged in your lungs will destroy healthy cells.

The largest danger presently is drinking from a ceramic cup or pitcher if the "Glase" is cracked. I recall the story of a family in SW U.S. that set their table with an eathen "ceramic jar" with cracked glase. The material it was made from some native dug from his nieghborhood was radioactive .

Slow death for the whole family resulted.

Glass cups, pitchers please.

[762 shooter]

Wouldn't a gieger counter (radiac meter) be compromised if it is radioactive?

[DuaneFrye]

Rawles: Is this a dosimeter or geiger counter??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7559402894&fromMakeTrack=true

[tac-40]

Knowing where to go and what to wear is very important. But knowing when to do it is even more important. Humans can't see radiation, so that detector is your eyes and ears. Otherwise, what are you going to do, wear suits and gasmasks for weeks on end, guessing when it's safe to take them off? I don'' think so.

This is true but for one problem. Most radiation has a half life of many years, so you may be required to wear protective clothing and equipment for a very long time. My point was, in order to protect yourself from a radioactive problem that has occured, leave the area. Most radioactive incidents have limited ranges of a few miles. Listening to the radio will provide you with the information needed to avoid certain areas.

At the very minimum, you should have a dosimeter and a rate meter (typically these look like fat ball point pens), plus a charger for re-zeroing their drift hairs. (And of course a few alkaline or NiMH batteries to run the charger.) The dosimeter tells you your TOTAL (accumulated) dose, starting whenever "it" happens. The rate meter tells you HOW FAST you are accumulating those

This is a well and good. But how much radiation can you be exposed to before you will suffer ill effects? Is it a short term exposure or long term exposure? Are you wearing your dosimeter properly so that it indicates the whole-body dose and not just the dose where it is located? Is it shielded by your equipment or other body parts? What do your instruments measure: RADs, Roentgens, REMs, or any of the other multiple radiation measurement standards? Are you equipped to do the mathmatical calculations to convert the instrument reading to a reading that will cross reference to a health hazzard chart? This is assuming that you have an instrument that is capable if reading the radiation that is present. Each type a radiation also has a conversion facture that equates with physical health damage. Do you know how to calculate Beta doses when using the "Beta window" on your radiacmeter? Do you know how Neutron radiation affects the reading of your radiacmeter? Can it measure Alpha and what is the conversion factor?

I guess the bottom line of what I am saying is, just by having a radiacmeter or a dosimeter or both, will not give you very much protection if you do not learn how to use it. An if you are not proficient in this, then donning PPE and hauling tail out of the area is probably your best option.

[Falfegnügen]

Everywhere I take my truck, I take my emergency equipment. That includes:

1. Good G-M (Geiger-Mueller, or Geiger) counter with pancake probe for lower level radiation, in this case the unstopable Ludlum model-3

2. Good Ionization counter for the real nuclear accidents and dirty bombs. In this case the ubiquitous CD-715.

3. Two dosimeters, different ranges, CD-730 and CD-742, with cCD-750 charger. These are very robust, no electronics in the dosimters, only in the charge, which is minimal and very easy to use.

4. Radiation Exposure Slide Rule

5. MCU-2P mask with canteen adapter and 2 spare cartridges and accessories

6. Military tactical NBC suit, sealed and in good shape

7. Lots of chemical gloves and duct tape

8. Several sets of spare batteries. Fortunately all these radiation meters and other stuff, including flashlight and ELT, all take D batteries.


All of this personal radiological protective equipment, And a satellite phone, hand-held GPS, dual-band hand-held HAM radio, a ELT (emergency locating transmitter), plus a few other small items all fit in 2 of those 5.56 NATO South-African ammo containers. It really doesn't take that much room in the back, and it doesn't cost that much either. This gear compliments my two other containers that contian more basic first aid/survival gear.

The way I see it, this is very cheap insurance. After all, we spend a whole lot more money on crap we don't need in our lives, and we spend a lot more than that on all kinds of monetary insurance which will be worthless when the SHTF.


Back to the subject, just in case no one has said this yet: Regarding radiation survey meters, it is very important to have a meter that is capable of reading the higher levels of radiation. This is not a "Geiger" or "GM" type counter! Unfortunately, in a real and serious nuclear emergeny, there is a very good chance that the radiation will be so high that a Geiger counter won't work. Geiger counters become saturated or overwhelmed at moderate and higher levels of radiation, rendering them basically useless when you may need them the most. This holds true for any true Geiger counter with a real Geiger tube. This is the reason that when you open up those old boxes of CD radiation sets, you will find about 3 CD-715 ionization counters for every true geiger counter.

As an alternative, there are some military "radiac" meters which combine both technologies into one, and also some newer solid-state survey meters have overcome this limitation, but they aren't cheap. For me, I just carry them good old reliable dirt-cheap meters that use D batteries.

[Falfegnügen]

Originally posted by DuaneFrye
Rawles: Is this a dosimeter or geiger counter??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7559402894&fromMakeTrack=true

I'm not Rawles, but

Dosimeter - Nyet

Geiger Counter - Da

It is a VERY MINIMAL Geiger counter based survey meter. It would be of minimal value in a real nuclear emergency, other than it would tell you there is above normal radiation out there, but you would never know how much, at the very time you needed to know the most.

Note that they list the MAXIMUM distiquishable radiation rate as 60 MICRO-Roengtens, or 0.00006 R. In otherwords NOTHING when it comes to truly dangerious radiation levels.

I wouldn't waste my money.

I also should state that I have no experience at all with thist specific model of instrument, and I have never seen nor handled one. This is only my subjective opinion based on the limited information presented here. This opinion is not meant to be construed as any kind of advice, professional or otherwise.

[Big Toe]

Well some of you know what you are talking about. I don't and I would like to know what I am buying before I piss money away. Is this good for what were are looking at? I have no idea about scale or type of radiation.

TERRA. Dosimeter- Radiometer MKS-05






Price: US $194.00



Delivery on CPT-Worldwide conditions. Final price of the order will additionally include custom and courier services payments (approximately 10% of the total cost)


See larger photos: 1, 2







Complete delivery:

Dosimeter MKS-05 "TERRA";

Operating manual;

Cardboard box;

Leather cover for carrying device using waist-belt or wristlet (for additional money).

Features:

Five independent measurement channels with alternate indication of data on single liquid crystal display.

Built-in gamma-beta-sensitive Geiger-Muller counter.

Automatic setting of measurement intervals and ranges.

Audible signaling of each registered gamma-quantum and beta-particle.

Two-tone audible signal of excessive programmed threshold levels.

Digital display with backlighting.

Two AAA size power cells;

Indication of power source discharging.

Stroke resisting frame.

Small weight and dimension.


Specification:

Measurement range and main relative errors:
Gamma and X-ray radiation equivalent dose rate (137Cs), µSv/h 0.1 ... 9999; ±15%

Gamma and X-ray radiation equivalent dose (137Cs), mSv 0.001 ... 9999; ±15%

Beta-particles flux density (90Sr+90Y), 1/(cm2*min) 10...100 000; ±20%

Equivalent dose accumulation time and accuracy of measurement, 1 min ... 24 hrs;
± 0.1 sec for 24 hrs

Energy range of registered gamma- and X-ray radiation and energy response, MeV
0.05 ... 3.0; ±25%

Discreteness of threshold levels programming:
- dose rate,
- dose,
- flux density, µSv/h
mSv
103/cm2*min 0.01
0.01
0.01

Measurements time intervals, seconds 1 ... 64

Time of continuous operation with fresh power cells, hours 2000

Operating temperature range, 0 C -20 ... + 50

Weight, kg 0.15

Dimensions, mm 120 x 52 x 26







Applications

Measurement of gamma and X-ray radiation equivalent dose rate.

Measurement of gamma and X-ray radiation equivalent dose.

Measurement of surface beta-particles flux density.

Measurement of equivalent dose accumulation time.

Real time measurement.

[Falfegnügen]

Originally posted by Big Toe
Well some of you know what you are talking about. I don't and I would like to know what I am buying before I piss money away. Is this good for what were are looking at? I have no idea about scale or type of radiation.

TERRA. Dosimeter- Radiometer MKS-05

........

My 2 Cents.. A very nice looking versatile instrument. Would be excellent for lower level radiation as a Survey meter, a Dosimeter, and an Alarm combined. However, I see a couple imediate drawbacks:

- Although the measurement range is wide, it still Max's out at 1 R. For comparison, an old fashioned CD-715 Max's at 500 R. When the radiation is in this higher range is when you need to know the most.

- It's a modern digital device loaded with sensitive microcircuits. Rain, cold, or EMPs might render it useless

- It has capabilities far beyond what's needed for basic survival, which isn't necessarily bad, however it may complicate effective operation by a novice in a panic.

Probably a good meter to have, IF complimented with something like a CD-715. I especially like the size and battery life claimed.

I also should state that I have no experience at all with thist specific model of instrument, and I have never seen nor handled one. This is only my subjective opinion based on the limited information presented here. This opinion is not meant to be construed as any kind of advice, professional or otherwise.

[Falfegnügen]

Some decent reading.

http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p921.htm

I have no relation to this website, and don't know the first thing about it, other than it seems to have some decently accurate appearing material. Read at your own risk.

[Treborer]

Keep some paper masks handy' the "Islamo-Facists" are not likely to come up with any really nasty stuff.

Toilet paper is still a mystery to them.

Don't use a mask you wiped with, that is dangerous.

:biggrin: