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Batman
October 05, 2005, 22:50
I have three weeks to prepare for my Montana Elk hunt. I'm not sure what ammo to take to kill that monster in the woods. I'm shooting a 30-06 Winchester Model 70. My question is...

1. I can hand load up some ammo. I have Barns XBT 180 gr. boattails and Nosler Accubond 180 gr. Spritzer Boattail bullets to choose from. Which to use? What recipie do you recommend I use?

2. If you had to buy over the counter ammo what would you recommend I go buy if I don't have time to make up some bullets?

Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
October 05, 2005, 23:23
I don't have ANY experince with the Barnes X bullets so I can't speak on them. I've shot them at targets, they're accurate, but not at an animal. But the bonded bullet you list will do the job.

Another reason to pick the Bonded Nosler is that you'll most likely be able to get more velocity from it before going overboard on pressure. Less bearing surface.

If you have to buy something over the counter, get something with a Nosler Partition, or an equivalent.

Oh yeah, don't forget to yell out "MAGNUM" right before you pull the trigger. They go down quicker I hear. :wink:

Plain George
October 06, 2005, 00:36
If you hit them in the right spot, they will go down with any 30-06 load., if you dont hit them in the right, it wont matter what load you use.

the gman
October 06, 2005, 00:47
Accubonds may or may not work out for you in your rifle, depending on the twist of your barrel. Anything more than a 1 in 10 twist rate & you could have trouble with 'em. That is according to an article I was just reading in 'Handloading' magazine (this month's issue, on the news stands now).

Without re-hashing the whole article as you can buy the mag & read it yerself, the Accubonds *may* be too long to be adequately stabilised by anything less than a 1 in 10 twist.

As for recipes? Can't help ya there as whilst I have the wife's 30/06 to load for, I haven't got round to that yet. I will be using Barnes Triple X bullets in that loading so we will wait & see.

Factory ammo? Any quality factory ammo, loaded with a quality bullet recommended for Elk, that groups well in your rifle will suffice. Read a lot of good things about Winchester Fail Safe bullets. I have used a lot of Sierra Game Master bullets in .270, along with a lot of Nosler Partition bullets (on Red & Fallow deer in the UK) & never had a failure yet

I've also used Federal ammo & they list the Trophy Bonded Claw & the Barnes Triple X so with just those 2 makers, you should have enough to go at between now & when you leave. If it was me, I'd be trying the Barnes Triple X, then the Bonded Claw & then the Fail Safe, in that VERY close order. See which one shoots best for you & go for it. HTH. :angel:

idsubgun
October 06, 2005, 03:12
I've been using Speer 150 gr. Mag-Tips in my .308 Husky since I was 15 (34 yrs. ago) and they have slain many of Idaho's big game including elk. I don't need any fancy bullets. I just put the bullet where it belongs and it always does the job.
I tried the Nosler Partitions one year and ended up shooting completely through the animal, lengthwise!, and the bullet never opened up.

Plain George
October 06, 2005, 07:43
Quote idsubgun..."I tried the Nosler Partitions one year and ended up shooting completely through the animal, lengthwise!, and the bullet never opened up.""

..exactly....many hunters think they are shooting cape buffalo.
My best results were with some 30-06 Frontier ammo factory loaded with Hornady bullets bought YEARS ago while on sale.
Never had one take more than one step..and that included a 6x6

PS..God I miss hunting...old age sucks

thunderchicken
October 06, 2005, 09:03
My '06 Elk load is pretty light by whizbang super triple magnum standards but does the job year in and out. 165 gr Hornady BTSP interlock over 42.5 gr of H4895.

mj2evans
October 06, 2005, 09:37
My M70 likes the Hornady 180g spire softpoint over 54.5g H4350, Federal 210 primer. This not a max load by any means but it holds 1" at 100yds easy for three shots. Also had a few 5 shot groups stay in an inch but that sporter barrel is not really meant for 5 shots in Texas summer heat. Bullet is seated a little long - crimp ring is completly above case mouth with case trimed to minimum length (please check ogive to lands in your own rifle first). I went up to 55.5g, accuracy degraded some (still good) and I noticed a little more recoil. I have only shot paper with this bullet so cannot help you there but Hornady has done well for me in 30-30.

millersm99
October 06, 2005, 15:25
165 gr Nosler ballistic Tip.

If you plan on gut shooting one, you will need an RPG.

steveo539
October 06, 2005, 19:56
If you're short on time, I'd concentrate on range time and finding a factory load your rifle will group. In my oppinion confidence in your accuracy (grouping) and shot placement are far more important than bullet construction. But if you've got plenty of time, it sure is fun working up a masterpiece with some top notch lead!

Opie
October 06, 2005, 21:58
Originally posted by idsubgun
..... I just put the bullet where it belongs and it always does the job.


What he said. Put a hole or two in his Engine Room and he'll go down. I've personally taken Elk with 180 gr standard, plain-jane Winchester .303 British rounds. I'd find a factory load that groups well in your rifle and concentrate on putting that round where it needs to be. It doesn't matter if you are using the hottest, fastest, most powerful load known to mankind if you shoot him in the guts or you miss. If it helps, I just totally wiped out my deer last weekend with 150 gr over the counter plain-jane Winchester power-points. If it was legal to shoot ball ammo for hunting, I would since most of my rifles were designed to shoot ball rounds. I just use the same weight of bullets as M2 ball (for .30-06) and I can hit.

BTW Best of luck with your Elk. I'm getting ready to do the same thing next month or so.

Randall
October 07, 2005, 12:51
Shot placement is the most important thing period. Nothing can replace range time.

However, I have some experiences with Barnes X and Nosler partitions. The issue with Barnes X as I've experienced was that either my rifle liked them, or they didn't. If the rifle didn't like 'em, there was no fixin' the load. On the other hand, I have a 7mag that loved Barnes X and shot sub MOA all day long with them. Barnes X are designed to mushroom 4 pedals. However, at high velocity (close in shots) the pedals tended to break free inside the animal and a clean and very small exit wound would be the result.

Nosler partitions are designed to mushroom their front partition inside the animal and punch through with the back partition fully intact. What I've experienced in animals where I've recovered the bullet, is that the front partition tended to be completely or almost completely gone with the back partition fully intact. Upon wieghing the bullets, they lost approximately 45% of their wieght in the animal.

Now that being said, A dead animal is a dead animal is a dead animal.

My pop uses Factory Remington Core-Lokts 180 gr. for elk in his 30-06 and swears by them. He's never lost an elk that he's shot at as far as I know.

What ever you chose. Take it to the range and practice, practice, practice...Not just from the bench, practice off hand shooting as well. Once you have the rifle dialed in, don't change your load...until after the season is over.
Hope this helps.
Randy

Para Driver
October 07, 2005, 18:08
I tried the Nosler Partitions one year and ended up shooting completely through the animal, lengthwise!, and the bullet never opened up.

I have seen this on smaller game, but I think they would be fine on ELK, due to the denser bone and muscle structure. Going through is better than breaking up and stopping short IMHO.

With 3 weeks to go, you have very little time to develop and zero a load. I would buy 3 boxes of Federal Premium, and I'd stay with the 165gr Nosler Partition loads because 15 grains wont make any difference in the terminal ballistics but the 180's might not stabilize in some barrels. Use whatever out of one box to zero at 200, and take the other two on your hunt.

IF you are going to be on horseback, and unless you ride currently, you would do very well to spend a couple hours in the saddle with the local livery horse.

Cummins_4x4
October 07, 2005, 23:59
I love the performance of Barnes X bullet. I use them in .308 and have had perfect performance with them. They act like a much bigger caliber and bullet really. Seems to make the .308 work like a 300WMag! The bullet expands well and almost acts like a broadhead in tissue, plus its plenty tough not to tear up on bone. Very awesome bullet! Or family has had no lost game from this bullet, this out of 5 dedicated hunters, and many elk and moose as well as muleys and whitetail taken. I find no need for a caliber larger than 308 here in the US. My .338 just sits there, it needs a trip elsewhere.

Isis135
October 08, 2005, 03:30
You could just use a MAC truck. When I was a kid in Idaho, I was riding with my uncle in his logging truck when a moose "in the rut" charged his logging truck so many times he killed hisself dead...tragic.:eek:

Plain George
October 08, 2005, 05:45
Yeah, uncles are hard to come by..:rolleyes:

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 09:02
I'm using a 425 gr. hollow based, hollow point Buffalo bullet in my .54 cal. T/C Hawken next month for my elk hunt.

None of these sissy smokeless powder calibers. :wink:

Plain George
October 08, 2005, 09:41
Originally posted by idsubgun
I'm using a 425 gr. hollow based, hollow point Buffalo bullet in my .54 cal. T/C Hawken next month for my elk hunt.

None of these sissy smokeless powder calibers. :wink:

That will work :)

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 10:14
I don't know anyone on the planet who regularly hunt and take elk who recommends a 308. 30-06 is considered the bare minimum for humane taking of elk. Shot placement is always key, but I witnessed my hunting partner with a Browning semi 300WM hit a raghorn at 60yds through the heart. The elk took of running and he was finally stopped at 200yds after RELOADING. I helped butcher the elk and his heart was jelly, lungs destroyed, and both of his rear hams were so filled with bone fragments that they couldn't be used. Their toughness is legendary. I suggest going over to the KIFARU hunting forum and seeing what the pros have to say about elk hunting... Have you considered 338/06? http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000149 BTW, "SUNDLES" is Tim SUndles, owner of Buffalo Bore Ammo so you can trust his load data.

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 10:29
Originally posted by FortunateSon
I don't know anyone on the planet who regularly hunt and take elk who recommends a 308. 30-06 is considered the bare minimum for humane taking of elk. Shot placement is always key, but I witnessed my hunting partner with a Browning semi 300WM hit a raghorn at 60yds through the heart. The elk took of running and he was finally stopped at 200yds after RELOADING. I helped butcher the elk and his heart was jelly, lungs destroyed, and both of his rear hams were so filled with bone fragments that they couldn't be used. Their toughness is legendary. I suggest going over to the KIFARU hunting forum and seeing what the pros have to say about elk hunting... Have you considered 338/06? http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000149

Give me a fuckin' break! Jeez man, I know a sixty yr. old man that's been taking elk the last 20-something years I know of, with his 6mm. Slams them in the head. He's a meat hunter and those horns don't taste that good!
I've dropped several elk, with ONE round, with my .308. Shoot them in the neck and take out their spine. Works every time! If I use something bigger (.375 H&H or my .54 Hawken), I'll do the traditional chest shot.
As for the "pros", give me a break. I've been hunting Idaho since the sixties. I can tell you all about hunting. I don't need any of your "pros". Sheesh!
Maybe you have tougher elk in Montana, but I seriously doubt it!

Using a bigger caliber doesn't make up for poor markmenship. And this seems the way people think anymore. Hell, the .30-30 has probably killed more elk then everyone on this board has ever seen. Being from Montana, you should know better then make that statement about the .308. I think you've been reading too many gun/hunting magazines and are starting to believe the crap they write.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 10:43
ID, I've been shooting 308 since the 60's, alot of the time for Uncle Sam. I know the round. And I love it. But you pick the right tool for the right job. As far as hunting elk, I've already brought in 2 bulls in the last month with my neighbor and I'm in the process of setting up my elk camp right now. I'll be at 7000ft until the end of NOV. I buy no meat, and haven't for over 12 years. I love elk and elk hunting. Personally consider them one of the most awesome creatures on the planet, and they taste great to boot! We have 2 bull tags and 4 cow permits for this rifle season, and I'll probably take one bull and maybe 2 cows if they are real fat. I've only lost one animal in my lifetime of hunting. Larger calibre certainly doesn't make up for poor marksmanship, but picking the proper tool for the job is essential, especially in hunting if you are serious aboutr the quality of your meat and humanely dispatching the animal. Elk live and survive in some of the roughest country on the planet and are notoriously tough - they need tobe. BTW, i don't have television and haven't bought a magazine - gun or other, in alot of years. My advice here is free, and it can be taken or ignored with no malice, but it comes from alot of experience.

Cummins_4x4
October 08, 2005, 11:11
I guess the 60 some elk our family have taken just didn't hear how tough they were suppossed to be! Also my great uncles had taken over 30 some elk between them with 270's. All of mine have been one shot kills. But of course I hunt hogs with a 223 AR15 so what do I know! I'll tell you what. its shot placement. Shot placemen, shot placement! I've seen countless folks that I have hunted with in the past do great wounds with 300 Win mags and .338's as they had very little operator time and were frankly afraid of their guns.
My advice also comes from years and years of experience. Blackpowder, archery, and modern firearms included. I never take poor percentage shots. Ever. I'd say that you would have to disagree with blackpowder ever then? And how about archery? Lets go to pistols, 44mag? I've seen all the above take elk cleanly. Shot placement.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 11:58
Archery and head and spine shots are for close range and are fine when they are coming in to 15yds from you. Most elk won't get too close once rifle season starts. My Noveske Rifleworks 223 with ACOG will do 1/2" groups at 100yds all day long and even a whitetail at 100yds with a 223 is iffy going for spine and brain with a 223. Much less a hog. Someone that can consistently do head shots and long range over and over is pretty rare. At least that's what the Quantico sniper instructor told me years back. Of course, the internet is full of people who can do it though. And out of the 100 actice duty SEALS who served in VietNam, I've met 2000 of them.

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 12:21
Head shot with my 6mm at 366 yds. as he was trotting away. Measured it with my rangefinder. If you can't do head shots at that range and closer, then I guess you DO need a larger caliber.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 12:59
"CONSISTENT" is the key word. And a head shot on a coyote is not the same as a head shot on a hog or an elk. 366yds head shot on a moving target.... Ahem, but excuse me if I call BS on this one though. If you can do that consistently you are the "Best of the Best". Just out of curiosity, what effects would the relative humidity and the ambient temp that your rifle was zeroed at have on a 366yd moving target with a difference of say 20 degrees and 30% change in RH? I'm making it easy for you here, ID< but lets introduce a 10% crossswind at 45degree tangent and a target moving at 6mph? Military specialists who do this kind of a thing for a living and train every day, used to carry HP Scientific programmable calculators to dope out this kind of a thing. Not to mention that they also had a trained spotter on hand to help and a militry weather specialist giving them up to date meteorolical data, and sophisticated electronics at their disposal. This, many times, for hard target interdiction, where the target was stationary.

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 13:16
Oh **** off. That's how that 'yote was taken. I have no reason to lie.

I tell you what. Grab your shit and come down next spring when the rock chucks are out and I'll have you shooting these types of shots CONSISTENTLY, you pompous ass.

I'm sorry you can't shoot worth a shit. I, however, am a great shot. But, I have done long range shooting for years. Hell, we used to call where the bullet would impact when shooting jacks if it was under 200 yds. Right ear, head, etc. How about shooting the noses off whistle pigs? Great fun but sure pisses off the whistle pigs. It's nothing to hit deer at 300 yds. Hell, I took a deer at 200 yards with my muzzleloader, and it's a primitive type, no optics, etc.

Jeez man, if you can't hit these types of shots CONSISTENTLY, then how can you talk about taking game HUMANELY? What do you do, just lob the biggest caliber you can and hope you hit them? What are you a California transplant? 'Cause that's how most of them hunt when they come here.

Like I said, the invite is open next spring. Grab your shit and we'll see who can shoot long distances. Rock chucks at several hundred yards? Great fun. Better practice though, as you might get your ass handed to you.

Plain George
October 08, 2005, 13:29
'Head shots' on big game are not really the thing to do.
Many Many are hit in the lower jaw, run away never to be found till they are a rotten corpse from starvation.
Neck shots are much better IMHO and the area is bigger and it will stop them dead.

georgestrings
October 08, 2005, 13:43
Originally posted by Plain George
'Head shots' on big game are not really the thing to do.
Many Many are hit in the lower jaw, run away never to be found till they are a rotten corpse from starvation.
Neck shots are much better IMHO and the area is bigger and it will stop them dead.


I agree...



- georgestrings

SADDLER
October 08, 2005, 13:52
As for the Elk Load question: My dad always had good results with his pre 64 Winchester 30-06 using 180 gr. Nosler Partition ,58 grs. Hodgdons 4831 ,CCI 200 primer,Winchester cases.The loads would shoot 1"- groups and were very affective on deer and elk.He switched from Hornady bullets after making a bad shot on an elk striking it in the front leg just in front of the sweet spot that would have taken out the lungs.The bullet shattered itself and the leg but didnt reach the vitals.The elk was finally taken later on but was moving quite well on only three legs.
I took his lead and have been using Partition bullets since, they exit and leave a good blood trail.
YMMV:whiskey:

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 13:52
$1000 to the winner. Libby MT range with FANER50 (local justice of the peace) holding the $$$$ and the judge. 400yds, timed, 10 rds into 3inch target. Whatever calibre or weapon you choose. I pay reasonable travel expense if you win. What do you say??

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 14:22
Originally posted by FortunateSon
$1000 to the winner. Libby MT range with FANER50 (local justice of the peace) holding the $$$$ and the judge. 400yds, timed, 10 rds into 3inch target. Whatever calibre or weapon you choose. I pay reasonable travel expense if you win. What do you say??

My offer came first. I knew you'd throw something like this out. Can't take my challenge?

Real world stuff please. Let's do some rock chucking this next spring. Unknown distances, except what the rangefinder says. Unknown weather conditions, unknown everything except what you know about yourself and your rifle.

And please, 400 yds. on a range? With a rest? Come on, even my boy can do that. And he's just a teenager.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 15:07
Talk is cheap ID. $1000 kinda speaks a bit about things. Since its so easy an expense paid trip to MT with $1000 to take home with you should be pretty appealing. SADDLER, got the ammo today. Looks great! Hope to shoot tomorrow.

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 15:22
I've found when you offer up a "challenge" and the person replies with another, then that person doesn't want to, or can't do, what was offered in the first place. The money doesn't mean squat. Use it to come down here next spring and we'll go 'chucking.

Real world shooting where you might have to shoot anywhere from 50 yards to 500 yards, from a plethora of different shooting positions. Not from a bench. How boring.....

As for your challenge, that's too easy. Set a rifle up to hit exactly there and you'll win everytime. Anyone can dial a rifle in to hit dead on at 400 yds. It's when the targets vary in distance that shows a man's skill. Hell, my buddy shoots 1000 yd. matches. I could borrow his rifle, dial it in to 400 yds. and shoot your challenge. Is that showing a man's skill? I don't think so.

BTW, he hit a chuck at 700 yards with that same rifle this year. Maybe I should call BS on that shot as well. :rofl:

idsubgun
October 08, 2005, 15:28
Originally posted by FortunateSon
[B366yds head shot on a moving target.... Ahem, but excuse me if I call BS on this one though. [/B]

Here's the thread where I showed that coyote before. Guess I lied in that thread as well.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95376&perpage=30&highlight=coyote%20366&pagenumber=1

You know, you really should think twice before calling a man a liar. But, then, I guess it's easy on the internet, I just don't recommend it face to face. Might get your ass handed to you there as well.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 17:08
ID, why don't you come on over, take my 1000, then clean my ass? All your biker buddies would get a kick out of that tale. Actually, bunch of bikers came in here 12 or 13 years ago, got a place a few miles out of Libby and set up shop. Locals came by to welcome them to the community and they left in a hurry. Never came back... I'm not gonna trade insults on the internet, or even face to face. The offer is on the table. Take it or leave it. Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

Cummins_4x4
October 08, 2005, 18:00
FortunateSon why are you so disagreeable on this? I can and have provided many many photos of game taken just in this part of the forum. This is real world experience, not conjecture on my part. DeaD is dead period. And shot placemant is the key. There's no need to get all huffy about things.
I advise non magnum calibers to those who shoot infrequetnly. I know it to be good advice. These same folks will be able to afford to shoot these guns and be able to weather the recoil. Familiarity with said weapons = sucess. Karamojo Bell is well documentd in his taking hundreds of African bull elephants with a 303 rifle! Would one suggest such a weapon for elephant hunt? Absolutely not. But the very slight difference of performane between 308 and 30/06 is really not much. I very much suspect that there have been multiple train car loads of elk dispatched with the lowly 30/30. My first several elk fell to a .300 savage ! I limited my shots to under 100 yards. The elk didn't escape or run off they died. Because my father and grandfather stressed shot placement. To place correctly or not to take the shot. a respect for the animals life and desire not to have it suffer. Guns were a total part of my upbringing. We carried guns all the time on our farm, in trucks, tractors combines and on dozers. Varmints were promptly dealt with as well as the multitude of stray domestic animals.
That said I try to steer folks who want to start hunting big game to a rifle they will shoot, and shoot often. A 308 or 30/06 are good choices as one can find very reasonable ammo if the shooter isn't a reloader. The more trigger time on said rifle will result in less wounding.
I have also shot elk with my .338, very very fast stops. But I also shoot it alot before hunting with it. I just don't like lugging this rifle. I guess if I and horses seen eye to eye better, it wouldn't be such a problem. But to get a 338 that I will shoot much I want it to weigh over 8.5 lbs.

FortunateSon
October 08, 2005, 18:15
Cummins, what you say is accurate. You stress shot placement and brought up a key point. You said you "limited your shots to under 100yds". That discipline is hard to come by when you see a trophy 7x7 following the herd at 350yds. IF you know your rifle and round and IF you have the discipline to limit yourself and know your capabilities a smaller calibre may do the job when a larger one in more inexperienced hands will not. I've come upon too many gutshot animals taht have crawled off and died and lost a trophy bull last year that made me sick. I was hunting with a FAL I built with an EOTECH and premium bullets looking for a big buck I had been seeing. I KNOW this rifle and with the EOTECH I am pretty quick and accurate with it. We all like to think we are good shots but I was the best in my company in the ARMY and have been through courses that stressed different types of shooting and consider myself above average, especially in quick stuff. Well, I crested a ridge and jumped a small herd of elk at 35yds and hammered the bull twice in the neck and twice in the shoulder. He still crossed the fence on the border with British Columbia and disappeared. I went after him, facing big trouble if caught and tracked him until after dark. Over a mile and at the end he was taking 2 or 3 steps then falling and sliding a few feet on his knees before getting up again. Never found him and I felt like he deserved better than that. There is no be all or end all single calibre that can be asigned to an elk or anything as the "BEST" - you see threads everywhere about what is the best elk cartridge, best varmint round, even in the military about the best combat cartridge. No real answer to those questions. What I was trying to say is that for consistent success, with a humane kill, under different variables encountered in a hunt, that I believe 308 is not the best choice. Didn't mean to be disagreeable or a "pompous ass"...

Shootability
October 08, 2005, 20:00
I like the Winchester 180 grain Fail Safe - they stay together and penetrate through tough bone and accurate too.

mhg
October 08, 2005, 22:00
For Elk/Bear, I'm using 160gr Nosler partitions in my .270 Win.


In Wa State Bear season overlaps Elk, and I wanted something with better penetration.

Otherwise Speer Grand Slam or factory Remington Core Lokt.

Take it for what it's worth.

And another worthless tip. If you feel good about your first shot, have a seat. No running, follow up shots etc. The animal is dead on its feet, again sit down and have lunch. After at least 15 min, follow the blood trail etc. (He/She won't be far)

I'm not a trophy hunter, the extra shots only ruin the meat. Not only from the bullets, but also from additional adreneline(sp?)

Good luck,

Matt

Edited to add:

Nothing wrong with .308, nothing.
Actually not much wrong with 7x57, 6.5x55, 30-30, 300 Sav, .........

fry
October 09, 2005, 20:25
clearly someones lips and fingers are burned from hitten the ole crack pipe.

it wouldnt surprise me if more Elk have been taken in the States of Washington and Oregon with 30.06 and .308 than everything els combined.

i wonder what the US Army was thinking when they developed the cartridge.

Windustsearch
October 09, 2005, 20:51
Where I grew up almost everyone I knew hunted and many of them hunted elk. I have never met anyone who used a .308, but that doesn't say they don't work. As far as my little world the most popular one was the 7mm mag, followed by .270 and .30-06.

I knew one guy that used a .264 with great success every year, if that round can do it, so can a .308. My grandfather took many in Idaho with his .256 Newton.

hedp
October 09, 2005, 21:42
'Tis what I love about the internet, everyone's a fuc%&*g badass.

Several in this thread need to grow up a wee bit. You won't gain any stature in my mind talking about "golden BB" shots at game (or non game animals) at borderline unethical distances.

I'm leaving this week for elk season in Colorado, hope my .300 RUM is enough. But more than likely I'll just try to get as close as possible before I shoot. I mean, it is called hunting, right? Not "lobbing" or "indirect fire training" :]

Windustsearch
October 09, 2005, 22:58
What is so unbelievable about that yote shot?

It's a damn good shot and not at all unrealistic.

splattermatic
October 09, 2005, 23:01
for my elk hunting trip, as long as groups are tight, i plan on taking a 308 with 150 gr barnes triple shocks, a 30-06 with factory winchester cxp3 180 gr silvertips, a 300 wsm with 150 gr barnes triple shocks, a 338 win mag shooting 225 gr barnes xlc's and my 8mm mag with 220 gr sierra at just over 3,000 fps..that outta cover all terrains and conditions..

shoot all of these frequently, so i feel confident in all of them..

as long as my last load testing go good, these'll cover from thick close in to cross canyon shooting..

if a few turn out bad loads and being this close to the season, the 06 and the 338 are my 2 to go with..both proven, sighted in, accurate, and ready to go..

the gman
October 10, 2005, 02:23
It hurts me to see two guys I have done most excellent deals with disagreeing over details.

I have lost a deer only once in my life to a Ruger .243 that subsequently proved to be a POS that couldn't group consistently worth a shit & has NEVER & will never be used on a live animal again.

So, I understand where FS is coming from with the .308 deal. Nothing should hurt a sportsman more than the loss & needless suffering of an animal. That kind of experience tends to burn into your memory, with a vow never to have it repeated. He has found that for his piece of mind & his hunting, a .308 will not do. Respect to him for his experience & choice.

Others have differing views & are equally entitled to them, based on THEIR experiences & preferences. Respect to you too.

I am going after Elk with Splat & Huntr in 9 days time & most likely, I shall be shooting my .300Win mag. I can shoot well with it, I think it will cover all that I need it to & yes, it rocks my world as I'm only a 160 pound wimp!!!:angel:

Do I feel under or over gunned? Nope. I'm happy with my choice.

My wife is going with me Elk hunting for cows in Dec & she will be using a .30-06. She simply could not handle anything larger than that calibre without being kicked to death. She is a hellva good shot but not when she is scared to pull the trigger as she knows she's gonna get slapped soooo hard......

She will keep her shots within her comfort range & I will be right by her side, ready for a follow up shot if need be so we're happy with her rifle.

Hey, is this $1000 offer open to everyone??? If so, I can think of a charity that needs that money more than I do but I'll come up & match the offer with my own donation when I win.......:angel: :angel: Joking aside, let's agree that we all have different reasons & ideas for the guns we use for game & leave it at that?

Finally, after seeing & pulling off some incredibly lucky & quite frankly, some bloody amazingly good shots over the years, I have learnt that it is very foolish to question a particular claimed shot. I've hit things that by rights I had no business to & some of them were luck & others were thru long experience & yes, skill.

All of the risky/unusual shots were at vermin so I didn't have too much sympathy for their eventual fate altho' I guess I should do. Foxes eating new born lambs & crows pecking the eyes out of the same don't merit much sympathy from me when I happen to misjudge the shot & wing them. YMMV. Good will to all here.:angel:

Plain George
October 10, 2005, 05:49
WOW that had to be the Ruger rifle not the rounds. .243 in my book is one of the most accurate calibers out of the box. I love it on deer, not elk.
IMHO anything between a .308 to a 338 win mag is suitable for elk.
Like I have said before, bullet placement is the key.

FortunateSon
October 10, 2005, 09:18
I vote we nominate GMAN for the position of FALFILES Secretary of State of the Files. Very well said. Now that the heat of the moment has passed I must admit that questioning the head shot was not one of my better days. I had no doubt he made the shot, I've done the same at 1AM, and other quite amazing feats, I was only trying to flesh out his temper level. I do that occasionally and have found it to be a useful tactic when dealing with someone you don't know. Useful, but not necessarily honorable. I was wrong.

fry
October 10, 2005, 12:15
well said g man. i'll be using a fifty caliber muzzle loader for elk this year, 90 grains of synthetic and a 385grain hornidy.

mhg
October 18, 2005, 02:25
Range report ****WASHINGTON STATE****


Opening day Deer was Saturday and all hunting was done in the Vail tree farm.



Team of 5

We hung 3 deer. All were taken with .308.

Deer 1.
Remington 788, .308 Nosler Ballistic tip. 3x3

Deer 2.
Remington 700s, .308 Sierra gameking 165gr. Spike

Deer 3.
Remington 700s, .308 Sierra gameking 165gr. 2 pt

After butchering all 3 animals... here are my observations..... if anyone cares


Deer 1.. 50 yd ,The Nosler dropped the animal within 50ft, entered the chestwall destroyed the heart and made a mess of the far side of the deer.

Deer 2.. 80 yd, Breastshot.. bad deal as the deer bolted as the shot was taken.
Bullett hit the neck and then opened the back of the animal along the spine.....Jerkey.

Deer 3.. 50 yards minus, gameking dropped the deer within 30yd. Heart was in bits butt he secondary chestwall was for the most part intact.

At this point I would not reccomend the Nosler ballistic tip for use against Elk.

Best,

Matt

armed1
October 20, 2005, 10:39
This year (last Saturday) I took my cow Elk with Barnes XXX 168 gn over 80.2 gn of 4831SC at ~ 3200FPS through a Weatherby Accumark .300 win mag. She was about 30 yards away. On Monday, my friend's son took a 4x4 bull with the same bullet on the same hill through a Tikka .308 at about 2800 FPS. His bull was about 15 yards away. He put the bullet through both lungs just aft of the heart and it dropped within 50 yards. I will give some pics if someone is willing to post them for me.

If you look at the ballistic tables, the only advantage of 30-06 over the .308 is with bullets heavier than 165 gn. The .300 mag's advantage is that it shoots flatter, and has a greater energy on longer shots (out to ~300 to 400 yards). But within 200 yards, I say there is no advantage and that the 308 will do just as good a job as the 300 if the shot is good.

N8Gunnr
October 20, 2005, 11:50
Originally posted by mhg
Range report ****WASHINGTON STATE****


Opening day Deer was Saturday and all hunting was done in the Vail tree farm.



Team of 5

We hung 3 deer. All were taken with .308.

Deer 1.
Remington 788, .308 Nosler Ballistic tip. 3x3

Deer 2.
Remington 700s, .308 Sierra gameking 165gr. Spike

Deer 3.
Remington 700s, .308 Sierra gameking 165gr. 2 pt

After butchering all 3 animals... here are my observations..... if anyone cares


Deer 1.. 50 yd ,The Nosler dropped the animal within 50ft, entered the chestwall destroyed the heart and made a mess of the far side of the deer.

Deer 2.. 80 yd, Breastshot.. bad deal as the deer bolted as the shot was taken.
Bullett hit the neck and then opened the back of the animal along the spine.....Jerkey.

Deer 3.. 50 yards minus, gameking dropped the deer within 30yd. Heart was in bits butt he secondary chestwall was for the most part intact.

At this point I would not reccomend the Nosler ballistic tip for use against Elk.

Best,

Matt

Nice going, Matt! Great to have venison in the freezer!
Heres our Washington Deer report for opening weekend:

Deer 1...Saturday 10/15/05 13 yo son, Spike Buck 360 yds 1 perfect shot kill broadside through the right shoulder, shattering the spine. Winchester Pre 64 model 70 .264 win mag Leupold VXI 3x9x40 Remington cor lokt 140 grn factory ammo.

Deer 2...Sunday 10/16/05 84 yo father, 3x4 Buck 40 yds Perfect 1 shot kill, white spot on neck under chin. Remington 700 BDL 30/06 Leupold VXII 3x9x40
150 grn Win power point factory load.

All in all a good weekends harvest, Am takeing my 15 yo over to eastern Wa. this weekend to harvest another.....Am saveing my tag for the late hunt in november. I prefer the late hunt,when the weather is colder.

fry
October 20, 2005, 12:55
those Puget Sound boys are game hogs.

mhg
October 20, 2005, 23:18
N8 you too

N8, late buck was pretty good last year... good luck

Hey gang, deer here isn't as easy as other parts of the country.

fry,... barbeque?

Matt

spatin
October 20, 2005, 23:47
Well, well, I just keep learning new things on this site. I would have never thought about using a .308 on elk. But then, I read the magazines and they all say bigger is better.
I guess I'm OK taking my FAL on my next elk hunt, haha. Should get some great looks at the local hotel, yes?
One serious question. I am pretty confident that a .308 would kill most any game animal at 100 or 200 yds, but just how far out would you think it would be an effective round at longer distances? Sometimes we get 400 yd or more shots here in Colorado. I'd probably be using 165 gr. Nosler Partitions or similar loaded up to as fast as I can get it to go without pressure signs.
Sidney

N8Gunnr
October 21, 2005, 00:20
Originally posted by fry
those Puget Sound boys are game hogs.

Yeah,hell......I aint kilt nuttin all year!!!!!Getting the itch to do a little waterfowling real soon.
Either that or a little pileing setting:wink:

When ya gonna take me duck huntin, Sean?

fry
October 21, 2005, 02:10
Originally posted by N8Gunnr


Yeah,hell......I aint kilt nuttin all year!!!!!Getting the itch to do a little waterfowling real soon.
Either that or a little pileing setting:wink:

When ya gonna take me duck huntin, Sean?

My bro and i will probably hit the Ridge Units a couple times this winter (Patterson and Whitcomb Isl.) The hunting hasnt been all that great over there the last couple years. It gets real good when the deep freeze sends the birds south (hasnt happened in a while) and the prediction is warm and wet this winter. I'll try and give you some notice, but thats a long dnag drive fer you northern types.

My bro and i have been talkin about tryin our luck at Sea Ducks....but i can only imagine they taste worse than non-sea ducks. i'm sure my kids will snack em down though.

dont make me take you fishing!