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liberalhater
September 18, 2005, 16:02
I am planning on getting a new hunting rifle (Remington 7600 pump) and I am down to these two calibers.

What is the difference between these two rounds performance wise.

Is the 30-06 a better all around hunting round than the .308?

W.E.G.
September 18, 2005, 16:14
The 30-06 has some extra velocity.

In a pump-gun Remington, you will never notice the difference in anything except ammo cost. Although, you will pay the same for hunting ammo whether you choose .308 or 30-06.

I'd get the .308 simply because "practice" ammo can be bought at a reasonable price.

I'm not sure what is the appeal of the pump-gun Remington. Have you compared the trigger of the pump gun to the trigger of something like, say the Savage Model 11?
http://www.savagearms.com/images/centerfire/hunter/11gcns.jpg

Certainly they are in the same price range. The Savage may even cost less. Think real hard about whether you like that Remington trigger before you buy it.

Temp
September 18, 2005, 18:11
With the slower powders which are available today, you can get a substantial increase in muzzle energy over the .308 by using heavy bullets in the 30-06.

I'd choose depending on the type of game being hunted. If whitetails are your game of choice, the .308 is plenty. If you plan on going after elk, moose, or bear, I'd opt for the 30-06 and heavy bullet handloads.

Windustsearch
September 19, 2005, 02:05
.30-06 will give you everything a .308 can and more.

BUFF
September 19, 2005, 09:40
The .30-06 is loaded to lower pressures than is the .308. When handloaded to the same pressures with the same barrel lengths, the .30-06 gains more than 300 fps with the 150 grain bullet. I have several safe loads that reach 3,000 fps or a bit more from my 22"-barreled Rem 700 with 150 grain Sierra and Nosler bullets. The advantage of the .30-06 increases more with heavier bullets.

Like Temp said above, if you are hunting deer-sized beasts, either round will be fine. If you anticipate moose or elk, the heavier bullets are better and the .30-06 should be your choice.

Gary makes a telling point. The Remington pump action rifles use the same trigger mechanism as their Model 870 Wingmaster pump shotguns. Not known for their crisp, light, glass-rod-breaking pulls.

My father-in-law has a couple of older pump Remingtons in .270 Winchester. Has killed truck loads of elk and deer with them. Likes them because his shotgun and .22 rifle are also pumps. He is a hunter, not a shooter, if you know what I mean.

Stranger
September 19, 2005, 10:09
In my humble opinion 30-06 does produce more recoil. I can enjoy shooting a Remmy 700 in .308 a lot more than I can a .3006.

Although, the 3006 sure does make the gongs out at 200 yards ring a lot louder.

dougjones31
September 19, 2005, 10:21
1. .308 is more accurate due to many resaons.

2. .308 plinking ammo is cheaper...although not many people plink with a hunting rifle.

3. .308 will kill anything in North America

4. I think 30-06 is a bad choice for Whitetail, because it is hard to find a load that works well for under 100 yards and over 100 yards. It is hard to find a 30-06 load that does not blow through a deer at close range. If you do find one or load them down then it is not as effective out at longer distances.
Whereas .308 has loads that work great for both. (From my 25 yrs hunting experience)

5. 30-06 kicks more and has more flash.

6. 30-06 rifles are heavier because that action has to be longer.

7. .308 ammo is lighter and cheaper than 30-06.

If you want to go moose, elk, bear, hunting then it is best to go ahead and buy a larger caliber or Magnum to use for that purpose.

masman
September 19, 2005, 18:05
i think being on a fal board we tend to be biased towards the .308.personally you cant go wrong with either and i question dougs reason for not going with the 30-06

Originally posted by dougjones31
[B]1. .308 is more accurate due to many resaons.

true with military loadings but not enough to make a difference with hunting loads


2. .308 plinking ammo is cheaper...although not many people plink with a hunting rifle.

true but try buying a box of .308 hunting ammo at some general store in east overshoe after 30/30 30-06 can be had just about anywhere.


3. .308 will kill anything in North America

cant argue with you there my dad has taken two moose with his winchester model 88 in .308 but the extra umph in a 30-06 is nice to have with the bigger game.

4. I think 30-06 is a bad choice for Whitetail, because it is hard to find a load that works well for under 100 yards and over 100 yards. It is hard to find a 30-06 load that does not blow through a deer at close range. If you do find one or load them down then it is not as effective out at longer distances.
Whereas .308 has loads that work great for both. (From my 25 yrs hunting experience)

30-06 is fine for whitetaill unless you make a habit out of shooting 80lb does.shot placement place a big role in how a bullett performs.i've never heard of anyone having a round blow thru a deer using a 30-06

5. 30-06 kicks more and has more flash.

you dont own a m-44 do you?i used to own a 30-06 mauser sporter and didnt think the flash or recoil were anything to be concerned with

6. 30-06 rifles are heavier because that action has to be longer.

wrong
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/7600wd.htm
MODEL 7600
Caliber
Barrel Length Rate of Twist Overall Length Avg. Wt. (lbs.) Order No. MSRP*
243 Win. 22" 9 1/8" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24653 $635
270 Win. 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24655 $635
270 Win. (high-gloss) 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24667 $635
30-06 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24657 $635
30-06 (high-gloss) 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24671 $635
30-06 (carbine) 18 1/2" 10" 39 1/8" 7 1/4 24661 $635
308 Win. 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24659 $635


7. .308 ammo is lighter and cheaper than 30-06.

once again military vs hunting sure 30-06 weighs more but for a typical day of hunting a few ounces isnt going to make a difference.


If you want to go moose, elk, bear, hunting then it is best to go ahead and buy a larger caliber or Magnum to use for that purpose.

cant argue with you there tho the 06 will take any of those with the exception of the big bears

55bird
September 19, 2005, 20:30
Both!,You need both.I have both and like both.

W.E.G.
September 19, 2005, 20:44
Originally posted by 55bird
Both!,You need both.I have both and like both.

+1




(although I did get rid of my Remington 7400 30-06 autoloader - "accuracy" was in the Mini-14 class)

biggun
September 19, 2005, 23:17
Try this reasoning on for size. What if you forget your ammo? Will you be able to find which ammo easiest? Which caliber would be most common among your hunting party? You won't be disappointed with either caliber.

Opie
September 21, 2005, 10:57
Originally posted by biggun
Try this reasoning on for size. What if you forget your ammo? Will you be able to find which ammo easiest? Which caliber would be most common among your hunting party? You won't be disappointed with either caliber.

The 30-'06 is one of the most common hunting cartridges around next to the 30-30. My experience has shown that at least two people that I've hunted with are packing an '06 with them. While it might not be their primary rifle they hunt with, it's there as the back-up. I'll be taking both of my '06's with me this year for hunting. Never know if you'll have a malfunction that can't be fixed in the field, or if you slip and break a stock or scope.

splogan
September 21, 2005, 11:06
this is great, keep the thoughts coming. I have been debating the -06 / .308 rem 700 for a long time.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
September 21, 2005, 11:54
Reading some of these posts is like listening to experts at a gunshow or the mad hatter in Wonderland.

Valkyrie0002
September 21, 2005, 12:45
A little off topic, BUT have you ever thought of getting a nice milsurp for a hunting rifle. Swiss K31 round is similar to the .308. Lot of nice 8mm mausers out there. I shot my mosin 91/30 at 300yds with a 2x scope and had a nice 5 shot group. These rifles are $150 and less.

dougjones31
September 21, 2005, 12:46
Originally posted by masman
i think being on a fal board we tend to be biased towards the .308.personally you cant go wrong with either and i question dougs reason for not going with the 30-06

Originally posted by dougjones31
[B]4. I think 30-06 is a bad choice for Whitetail, because it is hard to find a load that works well for under 100 yards and over 100 yards. It is hard to find a 30-06 load that does not blow through a deer at close range. If you do find one or load them down then it is not as effective out at longer distances.
Whereas .308 has loads that work great for both. (From my 25 yrs hunting experience)

30-06 is fine for whitetaill unless you make a habit out of shooting 80lb does.shot placement place a big role in how a bullett performs.i've never heard of anyone having a round blow thru a deer using a 30-06

5. 30-06 kicks more and has more flash.

you dont own a m-44 do you?i used to own a 30-06 mauser sporter and didnt think the flash or recoil were anything to be concerned with

6. 30-06 rifles are heavier because that action has to be longer.

wrong
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/7600wd.htm
MODEL 7600
Caliber
Barrel Length Rate of Twist Overall Length Avg. Wt. (lbs.) Order No. MSRP*
243 Win. 22" 9 1/8" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24653 $635
270 Win. 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24655 $635
270 Win. (high-gloss) 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24667 $635
30-06 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24657 $635
30-06 (high-gloss) 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24671 $635
30-06 (carbine) 18 1/2" 10" 39 1/8" 7 1/4 24661 $635
308 Win. 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24659 $635



4. You just have not seen as many deer shot as I have. I stopped counting at 300, but estimate that I have personally killed over 500 deer. For many years we harvested deer on a 10,000 acre farm where we had permits to kill deer day or night. My immediate family and friends kill @50 deer per year hunting with me. So I have personally witnessed over 1000 deer killed. So I have plenty of experiences to base my opinions on.

5. We are comparing 30-06 to .308. the M-44 does not fit into the discussion.

6. You cannot compare a carbine to a 22" rifle and it be a fair comparison.


All of the differences that I listed are small differences, but they are differences which fit into the discussion.

sandsleep
September 21, 2005, 14:10
I think he was talking about these...


30-06 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24657 $635
308 Win. 22" 10" 42 5/8" 7 1/2 24659 $635

masman
September 21, 2005, 17:03
Originally posted by dougjones31



4. You just have not seen as many deer shot as I have. I stopped counting at 300, but estimate that I have personally killed over 500 deer. For many years we harvested deer on a 10,000 acre farm where we had permits to kill deer day or night. My immediate family and friends kill @50 deer per year hunting with me. So I have personally witnessed over 1000 deer killed. So I have plenty of experiences to base my opinions on.

5. We are comparing 30-06 to .308. the M-44 does not fit into the discussion.

6. You cannot compare a carbine to a 22" rifle and it be a fair comparison.


All of the differences that I listed are small differences, but they are differences which fit into the discussion.

4.my opinion on that is mostly based on a experiance that my dad and a friend of his had.a buck had walked up on them and the both took aim.my dad with his winchester model 88 in .308 and his friend with his remington 700 in 30-06 both shot my dad twice and his friend once.at twenty yards none of the rounds penatrated completly thu.of course this was on a 190lb buck not a little southern scub buck :rofl:

5.read the rest doug i owned a 30-06 sporter and found the recoil not much different than a .308.the m44 plays into it because unless your recoil sensitive the differnce shouldnt bother you.so if you own a m44 everything else is cake

6.i wasnt comparing the carbine to the full length rifle.go look at the chart again.other than the caliber they're identical. :]

Opie
September 21, 2005, 17:45
Originally posted by Valkyrie0002
A little off topic, BUT have you ever thought of getting a nice milsurp for a hunting rifle. Swiss K31 round is similar to the .308. Lot of nice 8mm mausers out there. I shot my mosin 91/30 at 300yds with a 2x scope and had a nice 5 shot group. These rifles are $150 and less.

On this note, my MN is goin' huntin' this year, and quite possibly the K-31 as well. I usually use the old No4 Mk2 for deer but I think that the old girl will take a back seat this time.

A little tip also based on experience; 8mm Mauser does not work for Elk, at lease the 180 gr RN that I was using anyway.

Blood of Tyrants
September 21, 2005, 19:28
Get a Savage Model 10 or 110 bolt gun and you will be happier.

splattermatic
September 21, 2005, 19:58
so now with this going on,,
why would a 308 with 150 gr barnes triple shocks not be sutible for elk at close range,, say,, 200 yards and under ??

i know of plenty of people who use a 308 with soft point 180's that kill elk all the time, but since the barnes bullets hold together and drive deep, what say ye on what's in the barnes's catalog about using lighter for more velocity and getting the same penetration ??


i have both and like both, but my rebarreled light 308 is calling to me to go after elk this year,and i'd sure like to listen to it..
but then again, the 06', the 300 wsm, the 338 win mag, and the 8mm mag, are all crying too...

shot my 338 in front of george on sunday and after the rifle jumped off the rest and i had to catch it, george declined to shoot it, the recoil is pretty stiff...
got a ding on my nose, and road rash on my elbow from it as well..

oh, and i grew up with a 760 gamemaster and then a 7600 carbine in 06' wonderful handling rifles specially the carbine, but loud and it kicks..
the last coupla years i have been using a remmy 700 06' and found that winchester 180 gr cxp 3 silvertips, are just the ticket for whitetails in close, accurate and none of the 5 deer i shot had big holes in them, nice quarter sized exit holes.
also hornady 180 gr roundnosers work very well too, my last buck was shot on the right side in the guts and and i found a perfectly mushroomed bullet under the hide on the left shoulder,, about 23 inches of penetration..and going through the should bone.

Treborer
September 21, 2005, 23:22
30-06.

;)

Plain George
September 22, 2005, 00:12
You dont say what you will be hunting..that might made a difference.

flejl
September 24, 2005, 16:40
I like .308 since I already have a couple of "them thar FAL's" and do not have any "06's."In regards to bolt vs. pump, being an old pheasent hunter who used a pump action shotgun all of my life, I have a preference for this type of firearm. I also believe that a pump action will allow for a faster followup shot then a bolt action.

But, Remington has a "06" carbine with an 18" barrel that sounds like it would be a dam nice rifle to own, to bad they don't make it in .308.

So I guess I would vote for the Remington "06" carbine, only $386.87 @ walmart.com

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3170059




Product Information
Category: Firearm/Gun

Type: Rifle

Action: Pump

Manufacturer: Remington

Caliber/Gauge: .30-06

Model: 7600

Finish: Matte Black Non Reflective

Stock or Grips: Black Matte (Synthetic)

Barrel Length: 18.5

Overall Length: 39.125

Weight: 7.25

Capacity: 4+1

Sights: Rifle Sights

Safety Features: 2 Position Crossbolt

Drilled & Tapped: Yes

Rate-of-Twist: 1-in-10

Additional Feature 3: Twin action bars for smooth cycling.

masman
September 24, 2005, 20:49
Originally posted by flejl
[B] I also believe that a pump action will allow for a faster followup shot then a bolt action.

]

outdoor life or field and stream did a test to see which action had a faster followup shot.the semi was cof course faster but had point taken away because accuracy suffered from the rushed shot.the winner of the test was the pump.

skfullgun
September 24, 2005, 23:59
I'd go with the .308. What was said about this being an FAL board and our bias needs to be taken into account.

In my younger years (15-35), I hunted exclusively with an '06. I took dozens of deer with it (also with 30/30 and .243) and only had one bad experience with the '06 when some Remington Core-Lokts performed as AP rounds and went through with no significant tissue damage to several large does. That was the fault of the ammo...not the caliber.

Now, I prefer the Remington 700 in .308. I still own both, but I prefer the .308 due to the shorter action. My 700 in 30/06 is a tack-driver, and it is the Sportsman 78 model. Both calibers are capable of excellent accuracy.

Best of luck with your decision. Enjoy.

liberalhater
September 25, 2005, 02:48
Thanks for the info everybody. I have been looking at different hunting rifles because of what people had recommend, but I still have not decided.
For now I will just use my Mosin 91/30 that I bought for $90.00 for this deer season. When the next hunting season comes along, I should have a enough money saved and enough information gathered to buy any type of hunting rifle I want.

I will be hunting deer and ELK so I want a caliber that was capable of both. When it comes to larger animals like an bull elk, would the .308 be just as effective as a 30-06? Some say yes, but others say no?

Windustsearch
September 25, 2005, 03:11
Not sure of where you are or the sizes of elk or deer you have or what kind of range your shots will be. In the NW nobody hunts elk with a .308 and an 06 is considered pushing it. You might want to consider a 7mm mag or a 300 mag. I think that .308 is also getting on the line for mule deer at long ranges.

masman
September 25, 2005, 09:30
Originally posted by liberalhater

I will be hunting deer and ELK so I want a caliber that was capable of both. When it comes to larger animals like an bull elk, would the .308 be just as effective as a 30-06? Some say yes, but others say no?

depends on the distance your shooting at.under a hundred yards i'd say no problem.my dad took two moose with his .308.personally i'd go with the 30-06 to give you some extra insurance.

masman
September 25, 2005, 09:32
Originally posted by skfullen
I'd go with the .308. What was said about this being an FAL board and our bias needs to be taken into account.



good thing he didnt ask at arfcom:rofl: :D

flejl
September 25, 2005, 14:11
"good thing he didnt ask at arfcom"

What... you mean a .223 can't stop a charging Bull elephant or grizzly bear!

Windustsearch
September 25, 2005, 14:37
LOL, I wouldn't count on a .308 to do it either.

tigerfans2
September 25, 2005, 15:22
30/06 or .308?

yes

Plain George
September 25, 2005, 16:31
Originally posted by Windustsearch
LOL, I wouldn't count on a .308 to do it either.
I saw a Wild Kingdom TV where arfican game wardens were thinning out a herd of elephants were killing them left and right with FAL in .308

Windustsearch
September 25, 2005, 19:59
Charging ones?

georgestrings
October 08, 2005, 12:29
"4.my opinion on that is mostly based on a experiance that my dad and a friend of his had.a buck had walked up on them and the both took aim.my dad with his winchester model 88 in .308 and his friend with his remington 700 in 30-06 both shot my dad twice and his friend once.at twenty yards none of the rounds penatrated completly thu.of course this was on a 190lb buck not a little southern scub buck"


No offense, but I have a difficult time believing that - what were they using, ballistic tips, and trying to shoot through shoulders??? Endwise??? I've had clean pass throughs on deer that weighed between 150 to 200lbs with rounds as small as the .22-250 and .243 - and have also taken deer with .25-06, .270, 7mm-08,.30-06, and .300WM, amongst others...


If you're going to hunt game larger than deer, I'd go with the .30-06, due to heavier bullets being available - or, like I did - a .300WM... I have no doubt that with the proper bullet choice and shot placement - and within a prudent range - that the .308 will work on anything in North America - it just wouldn't be my 1st choice for the larger critters...



- georgestrings

masman
October 08, 2005, 21:41
dont know what my dads friend was using but he's been using sierra hollow points.