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Tzalaf
January 11, 2002, 22:45
Do any members have the rundown on all of these G1 kits that have hit the market? I have seen references to extended use in two armies. When was the first and last batch of these rifles produced by FN??

7idl
January 11, 2002, 23:15
I too am interested in the G1 history.

Is there a list of serial numbers and date of mfg for these things?

riffraff
January 11, 2002, 23:32
You might try a search. I know this has been mucho discussed over the last few months.

Dirtfarmer
January 11, 2002, 23:44
The last German G1 is inscribed as follows...

"Last example of the order of over 100,000 FN automatic rifles model FAL for the German

Bundeswehr. Order placed November 13,1956, and produced in the FN plant in Herstal between April, 1957 and May, 1958"

...Serial number is 100,000.

Taken from R.Blake Stevens book "The FAL rifle, Classic Edition"...pg 256

First with low line of sight, (made standard), stamped handguards and light rifle bipod.

Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer

p.s.- The Germans had first ordered several thousand of the "FAL Canada" for the "Bundesgrenschutz" (Border Safety Police), before finalising there own design parameters.

cfm
January 12, 2002, 18:34
Here is some data on the G1 that you may find interesting:

In December 1954 FN demonstrated three FAL versions for the German Bundes Grenz Schutz BGS) at Bonn. 1st gun, s/n DEU 1 was a FALO model, the 2nd, s/n DEU 2 a Canadian version and the 3rd, s/m DEU 3 a T-48 type (see Blake Steven's book for descriptions of these types).

During 1955, the BGS purchased 100 pcs of the Canadian model without flashiders. Later that year the BGS purchased an additional 1600-2000 pcs of the same model, but with a T-48 style flashider screwed onto the barrel.

This model had the front sight protectors with a hole, higher sights (front and back) than the regular FAL, wood furniture(including wood carry handle) and handguard with 3 slots (wood, of course). Lower receiver markings: S, EF and DF.

In September 1956 the BGS purchased an additional 4,800 FAL's of the above type, except this time with metal handguards and the folding bipod.

The German Army (Bundeswehr) obtained 10 samples for testing in 1956. A contract was issued to FN for the delivery of 50,000 FAL's by Feb 1957 and 50,000 by March 1958 - or sooner.

All of these were like the last 4,800 delivered to the BGS, except as follows:

Low sights (standard FAL), solid front sight protectors and removable flashider + of course the metal handguard and the folding bipod. Also had plastic carry handle.

Sorry, I don't have serial numbers but from G1's I have observed (mostly with 5-digit serials in the 23,000 to 38,000 range) I would assume the serial number range for the Bundeswehr G1's were 000001 to 100,000, but that is speculation on my part. I have no idea what the BGS serial numbers were.

Hey, Skennerton how about a book on the G1?

cfm
January 12, 2002, 18:47
oops, I forgot to mention that as FN did not want to give Germany a license to manufacture FAL's, the Germans decided to look for another rifle as soon as possible. German engineers had already during WWII worked with the Spanish company CETME and developed the MP44 into what became the CETME assault rifle which later was adopted by Germany as the G3 and was manufactured in Germany by H&K.

As early as the mid 60's Germany began to sell off their FAL's. Understand most of the Bundeswehr FAL's went to Turkey. I believe the G1 kits now available here came from Turkey.

-and one more thing: I believe all Army G1's were marked: S, E and D by the selector switch.

Mr pogo
January 12, 2002, 18:59
Germany transferred G1s to Turkey starting in 1961. I believe Century imported aprox 10K of these G1s.
The initial BGS contract Fals were probably phased out early, they were earlier Fal Canada variant and alot of parts did not interchange or were obsolete besides the sightline difference. The BGS was equipped with the Bundeswehr contract G1s, I believe they also ordered more G1s not to mention spare parts in the mid60s to equip the BGS and Bendeswehr secondary units, this is supported by the fact that Germany continued to order Fals during the 60s for trials. The BGS stopped using the G1 around 86 or 87 IIRC.

cfm
January 12, 2002, 19:05
The Bundeswehr (Army) only used the G1 until they had sufficient supplies of the G3. Some of the Army G1's were transferred to the BGS in the 60's, and some were sold to Turkey.

EMDII
January 12, 2002, 20:53
Originally posted by cfm:
<STRONG>The Bundeswehr (Army) only used the G1 until they had sufficient supplies of the G3. Some of the Army G1's were transferred to the BGS in the 60's, and some were sold to Turkey.</STRONG>

The Germans bought two entirely separate contracts: one for the BGS, and one for the Bundeswehr.

Dirtfarmer
January 12, 2002, 22:02
Now there's a HISTORY!!

...What else you wanna know? ;)


Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer

Falcon
March 05, 2004, 23:50
...What else you wanna know?

Meant to post this earlier as its a major gap in the G1 history that many don't realize, or know about.There were several variants of the G1 as cfm indicated, but most missed commenting upon.For those that can translate the text...here is a scan from the 1958 German publication " Waffentechnisches Unterrichtsbuch" to go along with his post :

BTW, the type ,,a" variant has an aft lug on the barel, but is not shown on this illustration for some reason. I can post them if need be.

instr8
March 06, 2004, 00:14
I have a G1 build up in the 200,000 range (matching bbl, carrier, bolt) barrel is stamped FN. supposed to be a G1 I should add.

After looking again, it has two stampings on the barrel. one, a 5 digit and the other a 6 digit in the 200,000 range. The bolt and carrier have the same 200,000 number on them also

What could the 2nd (200,000) number be?

squid8286
March 06, 2004, 00:38
Anybody know when the Turks quit using/abusing them?

instr8
March 06, 2004, 20:20
btt

Falcon
March 07, 2004, 10:26
From what I gather the Turks used quite an array of small arms, including the G1, up to the mid 70s. From that timeframe forward, until the mid 80s, they also utilized the G3, as Germany was their principal supplier. In fact,their state arsenal (MKEK) was granted an HK license and produced their own version known as the G-3A7-A3. Some time ago theyve began switching over to the HK 33 version.
Interestingly, after the German reunification vast stocks of NVA small arms were available. It is during this period that Turkey acquired over 300,000 AK 47s to complement the arsenal.Unfortunately no specific point in time, as related to their (G1) retirement, appears to be available.
MKEK tenders their surplus on the open market and here is a sample of their last offering:
http://www.mkek.gov.tr/upload/pazarlama/pazarlama_tender.htm

instr8, perhaps the kit you have was one of the DSA "matching number" kits, not sure as Ive never seen one. Maybe someone else can elabotate.

Rivaltm
May 15, 2004, 13:41
so , if century imported 10,000 of these...

where are the other 90,000?

I mean sheesh, somebody needs to find those things, and bring them in as kits :p

Gewehr1
May 16, 2004, 07:23
I have been told that the first G1's were parked. Does anyone know when they starting painting over the park?

Thanks

John