Rhodesian chest pouches for Fal mags

[timkel]

Just received this today.
During the Rhodesian Rhodesian bush war there was a cottage industry making many styles of web gear. These were purchased by Rhodesian soldiers for use in the bush. You can see this set holds 4 FAL mags and has a few miles on it. Note the field repairs. "Fereday & Sons" was a camping store but also carried a complete line of custom web gear for the troopie.
Construction was a little crude but these were very popular.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Rhodesian4magchestpouch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Rhodesian4magchestpouchtag.jpg

[dadman]

Cool.
Simple gear.
When's the last time you went to a camping, fishing and/or shooting store and saw gear sold?
Maybe we all should suggest to Cabela's, Dick's, etc., to start selling the stuff.;)

[familyman357]

Very cool. I like the Rhodesian stuff.

[timkel]

Here is another example.
It is captured Russian webbing that was modified by the addition of 4 FAL pouches.
This one is completely sterile, no Mfg. markings, even the snaps are unmarked.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Rhodesian4magchestunmrked.jpg

[Sword of Laban]

I know a ex Rhodesian then SA troop who said that usually when you saw a chest harness it was safe to pull the trigger. He commented that all the #$%@ communist wore chest rigs. I get the impression he regrets that he does not have the opportunity to send any more to hell.

[J. Armstrong]

I agree the Rhodie stuff is fascinating ! I got a set of web gear from Quack, man, you need a doctorate degree to figure the stuff out. Those troopies could hump some gear :uhoh: Interesting that the indigenous stuff is so simple - K.I.S.S. at its best :) Keep the pics coming - better yet, let us know where you get the stuff ! Thanks for sharing !

[JoeLad]

Cool!
It makes you wonder what happened to pouch #3 in pic #1 that it needed such drastic repairs. If those stitches were done on a man he'd be one Frankenstein-looking mofo.

JoeLad:D

[timkel]

Originally posted by J. Armstrong
I agree the Rhodie stuff is fascinating ! I got a set of web gear from Quack, man, you need a doctorate degree to figure the stuff out. Those troopies could hump some gear :uhoh: Interesting that the indigenous stuff is so simple - K.I.S.S. at its best :) Keep the pics coming - better yet, let us know where you get the stuff ! Thanks for sharing !
Thanks.
I do occasionally see these offered on Ebay.
But the best place to find these is in South Africa.
If you need one try here:
http://www.medals.co.za/
He is a long time dealer in Rhodesian and SA Militaria.
This advertisment is from 1976.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/230671.jpg

[timkel]

Just another pic.
These are Selous Scouts in the bush.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/028171.jpg

[J. Armstrong]

Thanks, timkel, appreciate the info ( also the pics ! )
I know here on the Files cape boer also has goodies for sale now and then.

[PennsylvaniaLongRifle]

timkel, Where did you find the picture?

[Brian in MN]

I think that your second rig began life in China rather than Russia. I have an SKS harness very much like that, mine has the wood toggles. I used to have one just like the one pictured, that tied the pouches shut. They came with the pre 89 Chinese SKS imports.

This past summer I read a book by a fellow who served in the Russian Army in Afghanistan. He claimed that the chest rigs seen on Russians in that war were locally acquired Chinese manufacture that had been designed to hold one .30 cal mag per pouch. The Russians soaked them in water and then stuffed two 5.45 mags in each pouch to stretch them.

[timkel]

Originally posted by PennsylvaniaLongRifle
timkel, Where did you find the picture?
Do you mean the pic of the three Selous Scouts crossing the river?
That pic is from the book:
"Soldiers of Fortune" by Peter McDonald.
pic on page 127.

Brian-
Sure it could be Chinese.

Here is a pic of the current style. It is now made of modern materials.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/230945.jpg

[Rhodie R1]

Howzit Timkel,
Nice pick up. The rigs with wear on them are always cooler, as you know they went out in the Bush, and weren't hanging in the closet of some Jamstealer. I have one almost the same with a lot more wear and a bunch of repairs.
Fereday's is still in business in Zim' and still make webbing. The man to talk to is Neal. They are always looking for ForEx and will sew you up twhatecver you wish. At least they did two years ago. Thing s may have changes since.
I have a lot of Rhodie Webbing and gear pic's but can't figure out how to post pics. If someone wants to host them I will email photos. I've got Frieforce vests, and chest webbing as well as Rhod. Army Issue web gear.

[timkel]

Originally posted by Rhodie R1
Howzit Timkel,
Nice pick up. The rigs with wear on them are always cooler, as you know they went out in the Bush, and weren't hanging in the closet of some Jamstealer. I have one almost the same with a lot more wear and a bunch of repairs.
Fereday's is still in business in Zim' and still make webbing. The man to talk to is Neal. They are always looking for ForEx and will sew you up twhatecver you wish. At least they did two years ago. Thing s may have changes since.
I have a lot of Rhodie Webbing and gear pic's but can't figure out how to post pics. If someone wants to host them I will email photos. I've got Frieforce vests, and chest webbing as well as Rhod. Army Issue web gear.
R1,
Send me the pics at timkel@comcast.net
I'll host them and post them for you in this forum.

Yea, those lazy jamstealers!

[J. Armstrong]

This is treat ! Looking forward to the pics - thanks in advance, guys :beer: :beer:

[timkel]

These pics are from the collection of Rhodie R1.
Rhodie R1 care to add any comments or history to your pieces?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens06.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens07.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Simens08.jpg

[timkel]

Nice collection.
I really like the chest webbing for the 30rd mags. Nice!!!

[Rhodie R1]

Timkel,
Thanks for hosting some of my pic's. Hope I didn't take to much space with some of them. I tryed to show some detail for people to study.

The webbing is as follows: 1) Fereday's Fireforce vest Late-war green canvas for FN with snap closures on 6x20 rd & 2 grenade pouches, two upper back kidney pouches, bed roll straps, and large lower rear pouch.
2) Fireforce vest North Mfrd camo hvy cotton duck for FN with pull tab closures on 6x 20rd pouches same rear set up. Rhodesians used square cornered kidney pouch flaps on one side, and 45 degree corners on the other so you could feel your way around the vest at night.
3) This is mostly South African Army webbing, belt, kidneys, yoke, front left & right pouches, ground sheet cover, bayonet hanger, with 6x20rd Rhodie issued FN pouches and a Feredays water bottle cover. This set was issued to a BSAP Black Boot named ROSS. Rhodesia used a ton of SADF webbing, mostly this Pattern 64.
4) Chest webbing FN 4x20rd Hvy Wgt canvas heavily hand camo painted Feredays Mfrd, probably mid-war and heavily used
5) Chest webbing FN or AK 3x30 rd w/4 side pouches. Cool piece, RHod Issue and for SAS< Selous Scouts, or Aux, as it is for an AK. SADF snaps instead of wood toggle closures. Rust stains in pouches showd it used to hold ribbed AK47 30rd mags. Very whooped.
6) Chest webbing 4x20rd Feredays very beat up and resewn with re-enforced bottoms, and patches resewn into flaps. These repairs done at Feredays, and shows Rhod mentality of wear it out, fix it wear it out again!
7) Fireforce vest FN with spray painted camo, early attempt to camo troopie, and looks cool!
8) Fireforce vest for FN MAG58 gunner by Fereday's. From a friend in OZ who fought in the 3rd Cdo in '79. Front pouches held belted ammo. This is more skeletonozed then a riflemans vest, as the Mag gunner was carrying a hell of a lot of weight, and he needed to sweat.
A am always looking for more pieces, and ex-Troopies to help me with background on my collection. Thanks again timkel, don't want to take over your thread.

[timkel]

These were sold as "Fireforce vests" or "Battle Jackets"
The first Camo vest was made by "North".
The second OD vest was also made by "North".
I don't know anything about the third vest. I found the picture on the net.
The fourth pic is of a new style vest in use by Zimb military.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/096807-big.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/028158.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/056099.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/231532.jpg

[timkel]

Note that it seems like no two troopers are alike.
There were many variations in webbing.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/028170.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/028167.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/161918.jpg

[J. Armstrong]

Tremendous pics, timkel - thanks to you and R1 for sharing:bow:
Only problem is, now I'm going to end up spending more on Rhodie kit than I did on the rifle - guess I need to build another:uhoh: :biggrin:

[l1a1man]

Very cool, very cool. I like seeing all the diffrent equipment down to the diffrent foot wear.

[timkel]

The Selous Scouts often used the weapons and uniforms of the enemy.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/028172.jpg

[BobKhan]

Timkel and Rhodie R1, thanks for the pictures. I am currently reading Chris Cocks' Fireforce and it is cool to se some more detailed pictures of gear from that era.
thanks
Bob

[J. Armstrong]

BobKhan, Be interested in your review of Fireforce - I enjoyed it thoroughly. Not some slick, professional writer stuff, just a down to earth account of a regular troopies' experience. I'd love to hear from those who may have served in that conflict and hear how their experiences compare, or their thoughts on the book. I confess to an embarrasing ignorance on Rhodesia, even though I grew up during the conflict. Completing my Rhodie FAL gave me the impetus to start learning more - got quite a ways to go yet, which is one reason I appreciate this thread in particular.

[BobKhan]

J Armstrong, I will be glad to talk it over when I am done. After this book I have Dick Gledhill's "One Commando, Rhodesia's Last years: the Guerilla War" on deck. It is fiction but the author was in 1 Commando. So prehaps it is historical fiction. I have to say that Rhodesian history has been my intrest as of late as well. Know of any other good books? I am also looking to get Osprey's "Modern Africa Wars Rhodesia 1965-80" I have several of the Osprey books and they rule. Color plates of period uniforms and variations, as well as a condensed Clif Notes style history of the subject. Curious to hear from anyone who has this book.
Bob

[Rhodie R1]

Guys, I guess I'm hijacking Timkel's thread but....
I have read Fireforce, good book, historically accurate, and shows I think the mindset of young Troopies. One Commando, is different, a lot of fiction......and not my cup of tea. Much more along the lines of a novel, and rather poorly written. Worth reading to help pick up slang and not much else. Osprey's book is a good first reference. It is back in print and runs about $10 on Ebay. Much better books are "Service before Self" by Mark Radford, "Rhodesia SAS" by Jonathan Pittaway, "Selous Scouts Pictorial" by Peter Stiff, The Elite Pictorial by Barbara Cole, and War Diary of Andre Dennison, by JRT Wood. The Dennison book is from the journal of Major Andre Dennison. KIA in 1979 a commander of the 2RAR. He was former Brit Para, SAS and moved to Rhodesia to serve. Excellent sitrep's and bits by Ron Reid-Daly of the Selous Scouts throughout. The SAS book by Pittaway is the best book on Rhodesian Troopies I have ever read. Firts hand accounts from Malaya to 1980+ The man made a piece of art. Just ask Timkel, he turned me oon to it. It runs about $80 shipped from the author in SA to you. Hope this helps. Rhodie

[Rhodie R1]

Guys, I guess I'm hijacking Timkel's thread but....
I have read Fireforce, good book, historically accurate, and shows I think the mindset of young Troopies. One Commando, is different, a lot of fiction......and not my cup of tea. Much more along the lines of a novel, and rather poorly written. Worth reading to help pick up slang and not much else. Osprey's book is a good first reference. It is back in print and runs about $10 on Ebay. Much better books are "Service before Self" by Mark Radford, "Rhodesia SAS" by Jonathan Pittaway, "Selous Scouts Pictorial" by Peter Stiff, The Elite Pictorial by Barbara Cole, and War Diary of Andre Dennison, by JRT Wood. The Dennison book is from the journal of Major Andre Dennison. KIA in 1979 a commander of the 2RAR. He was former Brit Para, SAS and moved to Rhodesia to serve. Excellent sitrep's and bits by Ron Reid-Daly of the Selous Scouts throughout. The SAS book by Pittaway is the best book on Rhodesian Troopies I have ever read. Firts hand accounts from Malaya to 1980+ The man made a piece of art. Just ask Timkel, he turned me oon to it. It runs about $80 shipped from the author in SA to you. Hope this helps. Rhodie

[timkel]

R1,
Feel free to post anything you like. Your insight is appreciated.

Yes, Very good books.
I would like to add "Pamwe Chete" and "See you in November"
http://www.hunt101.com/img/161911.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/063391-big.jpg

[EMDII]

Originally posted by timkel
Note that it seems like no two troopers are alike.
There were many variations in webbing.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/028167.jpg



Note in this pic the variation in barrel length?

[BobKhan]

OK. I just finished Fireforce. I by no means am a literary critic but I thought overall it is a good book. Lots of good pictures. As Rhodie R1 mentioned, you see the war through the eyes of a young soldier which makes for an interesting read. Some of the stuff that happened in the book kind of shocked me when I read it not necessarily in a bad way. But I am glad he included it in the books. Ground level truth….refreshing. I would have liked to hear what he was doing with himself since the time of his army service and perhaps a few observations of Rhodesia’s fate in general as an epilogue. Overall, I enjoyed it.
Bob

PS. do any of you know of any good Rhodesian historical web sites or just general Rhodesian sites? I need something to do over the holidays.

[BobKhan]

Timkel, I just realized I was hijacking this thread. Sorry man. It is just nice to share things with people of common interests.

[timkel]

Originally posted by BobKhan


PS. do any of you know of any good Rhodesian historical web sites or just general Rhodesian sites? I need something to do over the holidays.
Here are a few.
http://rhodesian.server101.com/Republic%20of%20Rhodesia.htm
http://www.geocities.com/leecatt1/
http://www.geocities.com/rhodesiansatwar/
http://www.rhodesia.com/
http://members.tripod.com/selousscouts/home_page.htm

[Forrester]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the picture of the three men standing in line with the center man holding a belt gun of some sort, it looks like the guy on the right has shortened the barrel of his FAL.

An early WESCOG carbine?????

[Rhodie R1]

The rifle in question looks like a FAL Para. If you look between the mag and the pistol grip you can see the buttplate from the folding stock??? I need to pick up one of those Sarco folding stocks for $150. I ahve four Rhod R1's not built yet, and can piece together a nice para from the parts. Would look good with my Rhpd SAS kit.
Chris Cocks wrote a second book about his last year of war and readjustment to Civvy street. "Survival Course" I believe? It is around, I just haven't gotten it yet.

[morgans762]

That so called "current style made from modern materials" is a pic of me in my back yard in my Rhodie coveralls. I used to sell those rigs on e-bay before they went commie. In still have a few if anyone is interested, $25 a peice, $3.85 shipping. Italian made, cordura nylon, pretty nice rig.:fal:

[J. Armstrong]

,RhodieR1 I believe the weapon on the right is a fixed stock carbine - look at where the troopies right elbow is and you'll see the buttpad and swivel. First time I've seen this variant in field servise - I wonder if it was an original production piece or a field expedient, 50.00 and para amalgam. Lord knows the Rhodies apparently whomped up every other combination, why not this one ?:? :) Anybody know about this ?
The center troopie is the MAG gunner with the MAG 58 LMG ( or is it properly a GPMG ?)

[timkel]

Originally posted by morgans762
That so called "current style made from modern materials" is a pic of me in my back yard in my Rhodie coveralls. I used to sell those rigs on e-bay before they went commie. In still have a few if anyone is interested, $25 a peice, $3.85 shipping. Italian made, cordura nylon, pretty nice rig.:fal:
I must have bought one from you.
That's where I got it, on Ebay.
Nice set of pouches. Good deal.

[l1a1man]

What type of payment methods for one?

[morgans762]

I would prefer a US postal money order. I ship priority mail, 3day.

[l1a1man]

Please send address.

[Spikie]

How many mags does the new style hold? Please send address for funds to be sent to. Spikie.

[eggroll]

Good Stuff Thanks for sharing.

EGG

[jrobb45]

Those are some really great pictures. In the black and white one, what kind of scope/sight does the man on the left have on his rifle?

jrobb

[jrobb45]

Those are some really great pictures. In the black and white one, what kind of scope/sight does the man on the left have on his rifle?

jrobb

[timkel]

Originally posted by jrobb45
Those are some really great pictures. In the black and white one, what kind of scope/sight does the man on the left have on his rifle?

jrobb
That is the British trilux scope. It was made for the British L1A1 rifle.
But it can be mounted on a metric FAL with minor modifications.

[zvez]

Great memories, just found this site, spent a good bit of time in Rhod in 78. Used to have a rather big collection of Rhod and FAL stuff.

Another book you definately have to read is the Original "Elite: Story of the Rhodesian SAS" by Barbara Cole, came out before the pictorial, some great pics. As an aside, in the Elite Pictorial - the pic of the remains of Nkomos house in Lusaka was taken by me!

If anyone has any questions on Rhod and the war would be glad to take a stab at it. As an aside, in 78 Rhodesia began to manufacture both 20 and 30 round mags for the FAL (saw an article in Assegai many years ago - which was Rhod army magazine). In the pic of the 3 troopies, middle guy has a FN-MAG "gimpy"

As another aside, Rhod also manufactured SKS and AK chest pouches as well, had specimens in my collection at one time.

Rhod1, very nice gear you have!

During the war, the Rhodesians had every variant of FAL you can imagine, as well as G-3s they got from the Portuguese. I personally saw early FALs as well as ANC Fals (these had ANC stamped on receiver "Armee Nacional Congolese"

Great stuff.
Chris

[sf46]

Are the chest pouchs being sold now?

[timkel]

Originally posted by sf46
Are the chest pouchs being sold now?
There is a nylon type being sold today. Scroll up to see pic and seller info.
The original Rhodesian canvas chest pouches are rare today.
I have seen a few for sale on Ebay.

[101ABN327]

Originally posted by sf46
Are the chest pouchs being sold now?

I am considering making some for sale here. I am working out the bugs on the design and should have a prototype finished next week sometiime. I found this pic of a chest pouch in a New Zealand museum.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/383420.jpg

All the Way!
:fal:
:fal:
:fal:

[torquemada055]

My question concerning the chest pouches is can they be made with dbl mag capabilities?

or would that bring too much weight to bear on the front of the torso causing fatiguelow back strain to set in that much faster?

[101ABN327]

I think if someone wanted double mag pouches in this configuration, they would be better off going with MOLLE. The original Rhodie pouches were for singles. Eight loaded mags on your chest with this type of chest pouch would be a little rough.

:fal:

[torquemada055]

Thanks for the answer, I just didnt know how it would be.

Glad someone did and let me know.

[gunnut1]

OK, this is really cool. But I would like to know what web gear the Selous psuedo team members wore. They carried AKs, to blend in with the ZANLA terrs, so I would assume that they used captured ZANLA web gear. Of course the Europeans used the FN rifle and they probably carried the standard web gear.

Anybody know?

[Rhodie R1]

I can help here. The Selous Scouts primarily performed two tasks, Pseudo Op's and cross border raids. For Pseudo work they wore Com Bloc eqpt. The ZANLA enemy operating from mostly Moz' was primarily supplied by China so Chinese AK and SKS chest webbing, captured and reused. The ZIPRA terr's in Zambia were supplied by Russia, and E.Germany so a lot of Eastern European webbing including rain fleck. The Selous Scouts had an agreement with BSAP special Branch to turn all captured uniforms and eqpt over to them for use, so they had a large pool to draw from as did the SAS.

For Cross border raids they preferred to carry their own FN weapons, usually NOT Rhod army issue webbing which was crap, but private made stuff, Fireforce vests and chest webbing. There are quite a few pic's of them in Armoured Troop carriers going external with helmets and private webbing. They did get a lot of SADF Patt'70 webbing late in the war as payment for helping train the SA Recce's and as it is great webbing, especially compared to Rhodie junk, was used staight away. Remember, that the white Selous Scouts were mostly Officers and Non-Comm's and so had more spending cash to buy private bits. I have never seen a pic of a black troppie with private webbing, even Officer pic's from the RAR.
As always......there are no rules to uniform dress with Rhodesia. You used what you had. Wear it, Wear it out, fix it, wear it again!!!! Hope this helps.