ACOG, Aimpoint , Eotech, Doktor, Cmore

[Diesel45]

Ok I am requesting ideas/input on what kind of sight to use on my para hit me with ideas feedback personal experance likes/dislikes,mounts. I do want some sort of iron back up sight.
I live on the Mexican border and drive throughs (dope loads) are getting more common and more violent I have had 3 this week on my Ranch...Hard as hell on fences! This gun will be carried daily in my truck CUCV so size is a factor but it needs to be almost bullet proof.
I am setting this FAL up just in case and Pray I never need it for that but I would rather have a gun in my hand than a cop on the phone. I am using an AR for this purpose now but just dont feel the varmint round will get it done. Let me know any and all suggestions are apprciated I want the combined wisdom of this group so I can make a informed descion.On mount and sight.
Derek

[MisterJG]

I just picked up my second Russian Kobra sight. The first one I got on my Polish AK, I liked it so much I had to get a second one for my Para FAL. These things are tough as nails and have 4 recticle patterns to choose from. The brightness is also adjustable. The elevation and windage are adjusted with knobs. Once sighted in you can release a screw on each knob and rotate the dial to Zero without effection your zero setting. This way if you ever need to adjust for windage or elevation, you can always reset to Zero without guess work. I got the one with a built-in quick release weaver mount. As you will find out, you will also need to get a cheek rest to aid with your cheek weld. I have an ITC from DSA on order. For the most part of the year these puppies became scarce, due to low production by the Russian maker. Appearantly they are starting production again. Past prices for these sights was in the $125-150 range. Kalinka ( www.kalinka.com )has them currently listed for $200, but be for warned about ordering from them, expect a 4-6 week delivery time. I ordered a scope from them and it took exactly 4 weeks, but it did come directly from Russia. Another source is Tantals ( http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstkobra.html ), I have brought from them before and are great to deal with. Kobras do come up for sale on the board from time to time. I picked up my second one for $135.00 shipped.

[MisterJG]

Polish AK w/Kobra in action:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1001715

Para FAL w/ Eotech in action:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1001712

[Sayeret Tzanhanim]

I prefer Eo Tech. Got a 511 on my CAR-15. Durable as hell and fast.

[Diesel45]

MJG sweet Para DAMNNNNNNN! nice rifle I will ckout the mentioned sight is that a DSA mount?:bow:

[Diesel45]

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!! your wood work is sweeeeet!
What length barrel do you have on your Para in the pic?
Still stunned by your wood!

Derek

[MisterJG]

Barrel is 16.25" with a short gas system. Yes that's a DSA mount, very smart design with the spring guide.

[RS39]

I like my Kobras (incl on a FAL) and CMore, but for this, EOTech. Circle about dot reticle for fast acquisition and detail work, also good for ranging/windage as needed. Also nice is the timer option (if I recall correctly) that turns it off after a few hours without added control inputs (you tweak brightness for example to keep the timer running). Unlike the others, truck life will not bump it on and kill the battery.
Also consider some of the neat 1-5x general range scopes. Almost like a red dot for blasting, but superior for 'border distances'.

[Sword of Laban]

Leupold's new CQ/T

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_48/ai_83483906
http://www.leupold.com/products/tactical_products/images/Scopes/Mark_4_CQT/Mark4_1-3x14_CQT_XL.gif
Leupold's new CQ/T: An operator's perspective
Guns Magazine, April, 2002 by Barry Dueck

M16 variants are replacing the 9mm HK MP5 as the weapon of choice for Close Quarters Battle (CQB). This trend has emerged because of the need to defeat body armor as well as the flexability to engage threats at close range, as well as threats in excess of a 100 yards. The M16's 556x45mnt cartridge is an obvious choice.

Multi-Mission Sighting System

This new multi-range capability has left a void in sighting systems to fully compliment these short rifles. Electronic dot sights work very well for close engagements and in low light, but they leave a lot to be desired in terms of long-range precision. Traditional riflescopes have peak performance at longer ranges but are slow for close-range work. What is the ideal sight for engaging threats at these various ranges? This is a tough question. To solve this problem, the U.S. military asked manufactures to design a scope that would bridge the gap. Leupold has stepped up to the plate with the introduction of its new Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14.

Leupold's Mark 4 CQ/T is specifically, designed for use with the M16. The integral mount actually fits both the flat-top and traditional handle-equipped upper receivers. Mounted on the flat-top, the reticle is at the same height as the iron sights. This configuration allows co-witnessing of sights. Co-witnessing is a term describing two independent sighting systems that visually overlap if used at the same time. For example, mounting a low-powered scope or dot sight between the front and rear iron sights so that when sighted the scope's aiming point is visible on the tip of the front sight. The two independent sighting systems verify the other's zero. Then, if your rifle is so equipped, the iron backup sights can be folded down and out of view.

The CQ/T utilizes a circle dot reticle having a crisp 3 MOA dot centered inside a large outer circle when the scope is set to 3X. Reduce power to 1X and the dot grows to 9 MOA. Etched in optical glass, the reticle has the clarity Leupold scopes are renown for.

A single AA battery powers illumination for the circle dot reticle. The use of AA batteries is a big plus for the military. Finding a special battery can be impossible for soldiers deployed overseas. The AA battery, however, is plentiful in the military, and is used in most nightvision equipment.

Changing the battery required a simple turn of the one-piece battery carrier, and it popped into your hand, ready for replacement. This task is easily performed in the field, even when wearing gloves.

Designed With NVD In Mind

Rotating the illumination knob clockwise accesses nightvision settings at the first two positions. Not visible to the human eye, these settings can be seen through nightvision. Not having a NV monocular for weapons mounting behind the scope, I tested the NV settings without mounting by looking through the CQIT with AN/PVS-7B NV goggles. I had no problem seeing the reticle and tracking targets, and I even found the 3rd visible setting dim enough for use with the goggles. The third and fourth setting gives dim orange illumination to the reticle. Continued rotation of the knob gradually increases the illumination intensity.

Adaptability

Mil-spec 1913 Picatinny rails built into the top and right side of the scope body are a first as far as I know. With the variety of lights, lasers and nightvision, it seems as if you can't have too many accessory-mounting options. While I really like the rails, they need to have more offset from the scope body so that accessories can be mounted over the top of the windage and elevation adjustment caps. The Surefire M951 6-volt tactical light would only fit on the right rail due to this length issue. Being parallel to the bore, the rails offered a mounting solution that aimed the light perfectly. The high mounting location lets the operator fire from a lower position over the top of obstacles. Lights in lower mounting locations force the shooter to use a higher position to keep the light from being blocked by vegetation and other obstacles.

Putting It To The Test

The CQ/T proved very fast at engaging targets at room-clearing distance. Although slightly slower than an electronic dot sight, it was still fast. The advantage came when going from close to intermediate range. Even at IX, the scope offered precision shot placement better than open sights. With 1/3 turn of the eyepiece, power is increased to 3X, allowing much greater precision for longer range shots. Engaging targets from 7 yards out to 300 yards, the reticle was quick to pick up and fast to center on targets.

For CQB use, the scope was set to 1X and illumination adjusted to its brightest setting. Moving through buildings, the reticle is quick to pick up. The large outer ring catches the eye and draws it to the center. Fast hits on man-sized targets were achieved by focusing just on the outer ring.

Adjusted to the lower illumination setting, the reticle is dim enough that targets aren't washed out by the illuminated reticle. I used the higher settings for close-quarters shooting in daylight and the Surefire tactical lights to illuminate the target while firing in low-light conditions. Although the scope was illuminated adequately for most conditions, the addition of an ultra-bright setting would increase engagement speed when fighting at close range in brightly lit environments.

Leupold's Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14 proved to be a versatile tool, very capable of adapting to the wide range of missions that currently challenge those going into harms way. For increasing the performance capability of the M16 type rifle, this may be the direction of the future.

Barry Dueck is a full time tactical consultant with the Surefire Institute. A former Marine, Dueck travels internationally training military and law-enforcement personnel in low-light CQB technique.

[BroncoMafia]

Sword of Laban, the Leupold WAS new and very promising 2 years ago.
It is an interesting optic because it is variable power, but it is heavy and eats batteries too fast.
I guess we need to hear from Deisel if magnification is appropriate for his average range of engagement.
Will you be shooting from over 100 yards away? Red dots are much faster up to 150 yards for most people.

KOBRA? I would rather have a TASCO PRO POINT if I were trying to save money (I have owned 3 KOBRAs and have sold them all).
BTW: do not buy ANYTHING from kalinka. They have ripped off many people and have a bad rep on other boards.
Buy your russian red dots from Tantal or freedomoptics.com

This rifle is going to be doing serious duty. You need real mil-spec durable hardware.
I would contact BigAnt and get his best price on either a new Rev. F EoTech 512 or an Aimpoint ML2 with arms mount.

Both of these are pretty much "soldier proof" and well suited for your task.

Advantages of the EoTech?
I prefer the circle dot reticle to the larger 3 MOA dot of the Aimpoint.
Mount is built in so it winds up being significantly cheaper.

Advantages of the Aimpoint?
Adjusting the brightness of the dot is much easier with the knop on the side. battery life is longer (but not an issue if you go with the new rev. F Eotech with Litium AAs.)

Hope this helps.

[bradterry]

My friends and I have the Aimpoints with tall flip up iron sights for back up. Thay are nice especially in low light. Some were able to use the Eotech. Almost all preffered the Eotech. A few were TESTED. They liked the Eotech because ofthe larger aperature for faster aquisition. The aimpoint is supposed to be a both eyes open sight. The aimpoint aperature is smaller and I get double vision on the target with both eyes open.

[BroncoMafia]

Forgot to mention the ACOG.
I have a 31F for one of my ARs, and it absoultely love it.
However, the ACOGs with .308 calibrated reticles have a VERY short eye relief (less than 2").
I don't believe this is adequate to shoot without hurting yourself on a FAL.

If you need maginification, you'll probably want to look elsewhere :(

Really is a shame because otherwise, it is an IDEAL combat optic.

[EMDII]

Bulletproof:
Well, USGI is using the M68 (aimPoint), and a smattering of ACOGs. I have an Aimpoint on my 50-00:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=965796

The Comp ML2 can be forward mounted, is VERY fast (use both eyes open), and 'bulletproof'.

[BroncoMafia]

Hey Ted,
Did you know that the EoTech is now being purchased by Uncle Sam for issue to GIs? It's true. It is a new model (not currently for resale).
The recent updates to the EoTech line are a direct result of changes they had to make to be adopted for our troops.

Also, ACOGs are not uncommon in the sandbox.
Mostly though you will find the NSN.
TA31F is the model selected by the USMC.

BTW: I said "soldier proof" not bullet proof :)

The further forward you mount your red dot optic, the faster pointing it is.
The double vision effect mentioned by bradterry is not uncommon when someone is first leaning to use a red dot, and is more likely to occur in an aimpoint than an eotech. I believe this is because you are looking through a tube.
However, with practice, the effect goes away.

The front flipup could actually be left closed and the aimpoint would still work.
The mind superimposes the reticle viewed with the right eye over the target viewed with the left eye. Hard to imagine getting double vision in that scenario.

[BroncoMafia]

Hey Diesel45,
Please tell us a little more about your problems with these border jumpers.

Are these people typically criminal types, drug smugglers and assorted fiends?
Have you had to interract with them?
What are the experiences of your neighbors?
How close to the border are you?

Sometimes I wonder why citizens are not allowed to defend the border aggressively, but when I see how our govenment is approaching the problem, I just don't know what to think.

Perhaps if we announced to the nation of Mexico that beginning on Date XYZ, all landowners on the border would have permission to shoot tresspassers entering their land from across the US border?

I bet the flood would slow to a crawl immediately.

[Talyn]

However, the ACOGs with .308 calibrated reticles have a VERY short eye relief (less than 2").

I don't believe this is adequate to shoot without hurting yourself on a FAL.

If you need maginification, you'll probably want to look elsewhere

Really is a shame because otherwise, it is an IDEAL combat optic.


NEGATIVE to having eye relief problems & getting nailed using a TA01B ACOG. I have several on FALs and find them to be absolutely NO PROBLEM with the stock length on the FAL. Matter of fact they are perfect for me & they are my preferred combat optic on most of my FALs.

Talyn

[BroncoMafia]

That is sweet Talyn, I wish I could say the same.
I'd love to run the TA11F on all my FALs.

Unfortunately, I need a bit more eye relief than 1.5" as I wear glasses :cool:

2.5 to 3" is more in range for me.

[Diesel45]

Hey Bronc I live right on the border the international fence is the southern boundry of our ranch appx.24,000 acres.
UDAs ...Udocumented aliens are an everyday occurance. as I write this I sat in my house in total darkness because any light will draw them like bugs. Wanting,food ,water,a ride,use the phone you name it they are not affriad to ask for it.I have encountered a group of 80+ on the ranch I have had as many as 20+ knocking on my door @ 2:00 AM.Im am off the grid no phone no elec. no cell serv. anything that happens I have to deal with it.
Not all of them are just poor people looking for work quite a few are bad apples lots of sex offendrs and former depors (deportation)alot of OTMs other than Mexican come over too. word was out about two weeks ago some arbic person was trying to mix with a group and come over. They are the cause of terriable traffic accidents 20 or 30 will get in a van or suburban and fly down the road on bald tires the wrecks are bad But the loads of dope that they drive over and there wiillingness now to get violent is increasing.A new cartel moved into the border town that is just to my west and killed the former cartel... entire family as they were eating breakfast in a restuarunt and one poor waiter and then made it known to the loaders (drivers of the dope) that if cuaght or cornered if they did not shoot it out that he would shoot them when they got back!So they will shoot. The person who lives the closest to me is 11 miles away and the nearst town is 11 miles away so I go it alone.The USBP estamates that about 4,000 to 6,000 cross my familys ranch a month thats alot of foot traffic.

[Diesel45]

Bronc this thing along the border is heating up.
And just for the record I AM NOT PART OF ANY GROUP THAT CHASES UDAs OR ANYONE AROUND! I have enough to do trying to manage this ranch there are groups beyond number down here that chase and or challange UDAs. You cannot even hold them for border patrol to do so your are in effect kiddnaping holding someone agianst there will.The offense is missdomeaner tresspassing and in AZ you cannot arrest for a misdomeaner unless of course you are LEO and if you do you can be charged and also sued and the mexician GOV. will fund there case.If they are hurt somehow by LEO traffic accident something like that that is the officers fault automatic citizenship.The local Hospitial will no longer deliver babys pregnant girl walk over thourgh the port and even if she was UDA
says she is haveing labor pains we have to provide medical care she hatches out the baby dual citizinship for the baby and you dear reader payed for it all.
It is a problem.I could go on for days.I have a interview recording with Asa Hutchsion if anyone wants to here what DHS is doing about it shoot me a email.

Diesel

[BroncoMafia]

Thanks Diesel, I have been reading about this stuff for 2 years now and it just makes me madder and madder the more I learn.


I was searching through the local sex offender registry recently to see how bad things were getting around here and was suprised to see such a high percenatage of Mexicans.

I will pray for your safety down there.
Sending Pm for the interview.

[Talyn]

I haven't used the TA11F model, but very happy with the TA01B's.

Good luck.

Talyn