Tactical gear descriptions / questions

[CraigS]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to get some sort of walking-around-the woods LBE. Sometimes with a FAL, sometimes an AR, sometimes a bird gun. Sometimes with a handgun, sometimes not. Not necessarily a SHTF setup (but usable as such), and I don't particularly want to look like a catalog commando.

I have a Blackhawk vest but it feels like a straight jacket. I also have several varities of the older U.S. Army LBE, not quite versatile enough. Been looking at the TT modular stuff you've dicussed here, looks very versatile but I still would like some help/input from you guys.

Questions:

1) Will any quality vest setup be as stiff as the Blackhawk is? Extremely uncomfortable, especially in hot weather.

2) How do you integrate various items together? For instance, a vest with a few essentials in pouches, a web belt with holster and canteen, and a small pack for an overnight or collecting purposes. Pretty soon the containers outweigh what you put in them. And it seems the straps on top of straps on top of buckles arrangement would get old quickly.

3) Will TT's MALICE clips attach to a web belt? Thinking I might start out with a couple of their pouches and possibly a holster and work up from there.

4) Any good websites where I can educate myself on all this modern stuff (including the issue gear)? Dating myself by saying my last real experience with LBE was with canvas web belt (metal buckle), canvas suspenders, and canvas buttpack.

Thanks in advance,

Craig

[JasonB]

Have you tried washing the Blackhawk? I have a DOAV that is used that is not very stiff, however after an 11 mile backpack trip recently where I used German Flectar rucksack that lacks a true frame I tend to believe stiff is better. I also had an Eagle that was made much better, but the pockets didn't suit my needs and it was stiffer than the Blackhawk I currently have.

A couple of things have started to play around with lately are chest mag pouches and commercial packs. I think the chest pouch($10 gunshow pickup similar to Chinese AK chest pouch) should work with just about anything. There are quite a few daypacks around that are bladder compatible that can holdall the gear you would need for a day or more outdoors.

The hard part to me is holster because in my experience the vests or any pack with a waist belt interferes with most belt mounted holsters.

Good luck,
Jason

[electech]

I am also trying to assemble a rig to knock around the woods in. One that would be able to carry enough mags and supplies for a few hours of hiking and shooting. I found a USMC MOLLE vest at a surplus store for around $40.00 and am using that for a starting point. I have added a Spec Ops bladder carrier and butt pack. I am in the process of adding Tactical Taylor pouches for mags and from there will decide what I need next. The vest has alot of adjustment range and seems comfortable, but I don't have enough pouches to really give it a good test yet. The malice clips really hold the pouches secure without any flopping around. The TT AK pouches hold two 30rd AK mags or three 30rd AR mags.


Regards,
David

[eggroll]

what do you plan to do, how much equipment, how big are you?

Generally speaking stay away from most of BHI products save for their STRIKE lineup.

How much money are you willing to spend?

EGG
www.geardo.com

[CraigS]

Thanks for the input guys.

Egg: If I could answer your questions, the choices would be more obvious. I'm really looking to put together some sort of all around system. For a more specific example than my original post : 1) Short foray into the desert (or woods, if I can escape from here) - handgun, mag or speed-strips, water, candy bar and dog biscuits, small first-aid kit. 2) Longer wander - above plus a couple of rifle mags, maybe small binos, compass, bare essential overnight get-comfortable-until-daybreak stuff. 3) Intentional overnight - above plus the obvious addition of a small pack.

My first problem is the only first hand experience I have is with pre - MOLLE issue stuff. I don't even know (other than website pictures) what the MOLLE system consists of, or how the pieces integrate. Not to mention the newer high speed stuff like TT's. Will MOLLE components attach to the older issue? Can I attach a TT holster with MALICE to a web belt? Hence my original question #4 about educating myself. David mentioned picking up a MOLLE vest. Does that attach to the web belt or is it stand-alone? And Jason mentioned the belt holster interfering with any kind of waist belt. Precisely the kind of problem I was wondering if anyone has figured out. How can I sequentially add vest to web belt - pack to vest without a lot of monkeying around with dozens of straps and moving things from pocket to pocket? What is compatible with what?

Maybe my present setup will give you guys a somewhere to start a critique. Issue web belt, Bianchi holster(s), variety of issue and surplus store pouches, issue canteen. (plus) Later version LBE suspenders (with pockets and padded straps). (plus) BHI Three Day Assault w/ Camelbak (shoulder straps conflict with LBE). As I said above, not very integrated. Can't use the pack's waist belt with belt holster, can't use shoulder or chest holster with LBE (and I tried a thigh holster - banged up my Combat Commander on the rocks).

I understand that I'm probably asking a "why is the earth round" question here, but I figure someone amongst this esteemed gallery must have pondered the same question and I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Egg again: Don't want to say price is no object. But I don't mind spending a premium for something that suits my purpose and will last me into retirement, and still be a serviceable piece of kit for any future grandkid.

Regards,

Craig

[Sayeret Tzanhanim]

Generally speaking stay away from most of BHI products save for their STRIKE lineup.

Pardon me but thats nonsense.

Blackhawk makes fine gear for the money. I know of several "real operators" who used the BHI Commando vest in Afghanistan and I used their DOAV there also. It lasts and it doesn't make you feel like an idiot for spending exobitant amounts of money on sexy kit. Hell, one amazing former Delta/CAG guy wore his home-made kit given to him in Africa. Not a lot of bells and whistles on it.
It sounds to me like you just want a set-up that is reliable and will carry your gear in a way that is comfortable for you. There are plenty of over-priced, over-engineered and overweight products out there intended for the high-speed operator or gear-junky market.
If I were you, spend some time shopping cheaper than dirt
cheaperthandirt.com
and save your hard-earned cash for jeep-fuel and beef jerky.
ST

[yovinny]

Blackhawk makes fine gear for the money
No flame but;
Blackhawk makes cheaper COPY's of other US designer/manufacturer's equipment. there nothing but ripp-off's made in Viet Nam sweat shops and sold through a dishonest "made in US" advertising policy.
They get none of my money.
Cheers, YOOO VINNY

[Sayeret Tzanhanim]

I understand.
I don't care where it comes from. Its pretty well put together and it works.

[electech]

Craig,

The MOLLE vest is a stand alone item. It is a carrier that you can attach all kinds of pouches to. Many manufacturers make pouches for the MOLLE equipment. MOLLE actually denotes the type of pouch mounting system used by the USMC, other branches have other names for the same system . You should be able to do an internet search and find more info about the whole system.


Regards,
David

[Orion 762]

You might want to consider the Wonder Vest setup by Gary's Custom Guns. This vest will "carry a load" if you want it to, and it's setup for hunting and hiking. Well made, and very comfortable, BTW.


http://www.garyscustomguns.com/default.asp

Orion 762

[Broadsword]

Don't know if it's what you want but I have an Arktis classic chest rig in British DPM camouflage. It's in new condition. It will carry your FAL mags or a bunch of AR15 mags, water bottles, chow, med kit etc. I think they're selling for a hundred bucks or better new. I'll let this one go for $75.00. Drop me a line if you like and I'll launch some pictures out your way.
The chest rigs ride well with a pack and will alow you to wear your Commander in your Bianchi rig on a seperate belt kit.
Broadsword

[Ranger1]

Just FYI to anyone who deals with Broadsword... I bought this vest and received it today... It is better than he described and he communicated well and shipped fast. Thanks Don!

[Broadsword]

Glad you like it Ranger. It's a nice simple rig. Should serve you well.
Broadsword

[EMDII]

I have an Arktis NL1624 that is a VERY lightweight but comprehensive rig. NOT as stiff or heavy as a vest (also won't carry plates), but exceptionally well-made. Our sponsor Texas Tactical carries these, and I am thrilled. This IS my 'go to' rig.
http://www.arktisusa.com/new%20images/1624rig.jpg

It is not a gunfighters (CQB) vest liek some of the stuff we see. I use an Israeli EPHOD A-11 for CQB matches: very minimalist, great access.
http://www.israelmilitary.com/images/infantry%20harness.jpg

Choose according to your mission. Do NOT choose poorly: you will pay somewhere for this mistake. Define your mission essentials, and pack accordingly.

[BroncoMafia]

I like the Izzy style system too.

The Blackhawk ISAAK is an enhanced version of the EPHOD you pictured.
It has (4) mag pouches (3-M4 ea or 2 FAL ea), (2) large utility pouches (SAW pouches) with small utility pouches in thier lids (for strobe, first aid, etc.) (2) canteen pouches, 2 pop flare pouches and a butt pack.
The waist belt has removeable padding.

With the combination of SAW pouches and butt pack, you could easily carry enough gear for a few days in the field.

The only down side is there is no pistol holster or room to hang one from the rig.

[BlackCat]

I have an Arktis "Special Operations" (I cringe at the name) vest in flektarn, I believe its a model 2005? 2006? Its been a long while since I ordered it. I actually wanted the "recon" vest, but they were on a year-long backorder. Its an awesome piece of gear, but it'll set you back $270. Holds a massive camelback bladder, a Sig 226, 12 rifle mags of your choice, and has two detachable large do-it-all chest pouches( which, if you absolutely HAVE to, will hold about 3 more mags apiece). Very spiffy, I enthusiastically recommend their products.

[TimW]

The Israeli A-11 vest is a nice entry-level rig for someone who has no other gear and wants to get a set up that will carry everything right off the bat. It's not going to carry a WHOLE lot, but it will get the job done. Works for AR and AK set ups. FAL mags won't fit. Ask me how I know. :) What I also like about the A-11 is that it is adjustable for us bigger lads.

The A-10, the next step up, is my favorite of the Israeli line up, but made more for folks who are in shape. I have a 42" waist and I have to wear it a little tight to get it secure. It's a one-piece wrap-around in the waist belt area, w/no "kidney" adjustment straps like the A-11 or Israeli vest set ups. None of the Israeli stuff is modular.

Blackhawk's strike line is a pretty good value too. I am not going to get into the politics of the issue...some folks will buy them, others refuse to. That's OK. One of the good things about modular rigs is that you really can only buy what you need/want, even though most folks tend to get pouches for every piece of real-estate that's open. Again, ask me how I know. :)

High Speed Gear, Tactical Tailor, SO Tech and others (including our PT-03 MESA Assault Vest made for us by High Speed Gear) are on the upper end of the MOLLE gear price spectrum and well made kit.

SpecOps i ssupposed to be coming out with a MOLLE-based rig, but not sure when that's going to happen.

As Eggroll said, one should figure out your mission and budget, then investigate accordingly. Both he and I could likely come up with a variety of gear to fit what you want to do, but would it be in your price range? maybe, maybe not.

One of the best values, IMO, is the South African Pattern 83 Assault Vest, if you can find one in good condition. That happens to be my favorite vest, but a) I couldn't get mine to carry FAL mags well and b) my 100oz Camelbak wouldn't fit in the back. That's what led me to design (with some input from Eggrol, Military Moron and a few others) the MESA vest.

If you're looking for a vest set-up, and want inexpensive, the A-11 or the South African vest will do you right, IMO. It's easy to go up from there.

[EMDII]

Here I am in an A11 w/ FAL magazines in the pouches. They fit fine.
:wink:


http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1012607

[TimW]

Originally posted by EMDII
Here I am in an A11 w/ FAL magazines in the pouches. They fit fine.
:wink:



Sweet..you know, I tried to get two of them in there with no luck. I'll admit to not trying very hard :D Also, some closed-cell foam would be good for raising the mags a little bit.

Thanks for showing me that it can be done...I'll have to dig one out and give it another go.

[EMDII]

I don't use the foam. With the mags 'down', the pouch is snug enough to run, jump, and hide. A little upward pressure when reaching for one (training) and it sorts right out. Haven't lost any yet!

Try putting two together and angling them in the first time. let them sit a day or two and you're quite ready for FAL-fun!

[Sayeret Tzanhanim]

Yeah Ted, you're right.
I have an A-11 (you've seen it on the ref and data thread). BTW, I thought you ended up getting the Recon Vest.
Regardless, the A-11 works fine w/FAL and AR mags and is pretty inexpensive. If any of you are torn between the two, its worth the extra fifty bucks to go with the Israeli rather than the cheap SA-83 knockoffs.

[EMDII]

ST!
Good to see you up and about!

I wanted a Recon/A-10, but Eli was lost before we closed the deal. So now, I wear the A-11 and think of him. We'd known each other in previous (military) lives.

[TimW]

Originally posted by EMDII
ST!
Good to see you up and about!

I wanted a Recon/A-10, but Eli was lost before we closed the deal. So now, I wear the A-11 and think of him. We'd known each other in previous (military) lives.

Yes, Eli's loss was a big blow to a lot of folks. He and I worked out a deal for me to take over Assaultvest.com just before he shipped out in December '03, so if you're still interested, I have some. I've got one A-10 left.

Regarding the Israeli versus the cheap '83 knock-offs...absolutely go Izzy. However, between the real P-83 vest and an A-11, it'd be a tough choice, but I think I'd go with the SADF vest because I really like the design and layout (the main influence on the MESA Vest).

I don't think you can really go wrong with either the A-11 or an original P-83 vest.....

[slikrickabn]

What's a good source for the A-11?

Rick

[EMDII]

See the post above yours!
:wink:

Practical Tactical is Eli's old company, AssaultVest.com. Under new management since he deployed and was subsequently killed. Tim is the man to whom you need to talk.

[TimW]

Originally posted by EMDII
See the post above yours!
:wink:

Practical Tactical is Eli's old company, AssaultVest.com. Under new management since he deployed and was subsequently killed. Tim is the man to whom you need to talk.

I actually have kept assaultvest.com as a separate domain, even though it's all going through PracTac. I am working on a Assaulvest.com update that will include a "in memoriam" portion for Eli.

[EMDII]

Good man Tim!
:wink: