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Broadsword
March 08, 2004, 17:02
I have a few smocks in British DPM ie lightweight temprate combat smock, heavier weight combat smock, MOD issue sniper smock, an SAS windproof smock and an Arktis #1015. I like all of them and use them quite a bit. I'm thinking about investing in one of the nicer (more expensive) smocks like the Arktis sniper smock, SASS Kit Karry smock or the Drop Zone Reece smock. Does anyone have one of these that would like to post a review about it? I'd love to hear about them and see some pics. I'm sure others would as well.
Can you post links to sites where we can look at some different types of smocks. Mine are all standard MOD issue other than the Arktis. Just wanted some help with research and thought it might make for an interesting thread.
Broadsword.

Andy the Aussie
March 08, 2004, 19:17
Hey mate....the Brits do make some damn good kit.....!!!! I have a Royal Marine Arctic Smock that is great....as you are aware it is an SAS smock with a larger wired hood....I have often thought of investing in a SASS one of some description but the RM one is still going strong. I will be interested to hear what people thing of the SASS ones.

Andy:)

Broadsword
March 08, 2004, 20:08
Aussie,
I was thinking about smocks when I was thumbing through my latest issue of SOF this afternoon. Theres a pic of a guy wearing a Drop Zone, Reece smock in Canadian digital desert camouflage. Looks nice. I went to Drop Zones site but had no luck finding it. Maby I'm looking in the wrong places. Someone help me out here. Refrence the RM Arctic smock. Had one some years ago but it went away with the rest of my collection due to marital troubles. I'm seeing a bunch of them on Ebay lately. Might have to pick another one up. I'd like to have one complete with liner. Nice kit for sure. I just picked up a complete set of RM Commando arctic overwhites on Ebay. Jacket, pants, bergen cover, gloves and even the little white stuff sacks the whole thing comes in. Picked it all up shipped from England for $25.00 Can you believe that? There are some great deals on Ebay if your willing to search for them. I find myself doing searches for Brit Kit just about every night.
Broadsword

Andy the Aussie
March 08, 2004, 20:58
I just gave my RM smock a new bath in TX-10 so it will be good through this winter. That is some deal on the whites....not to much call for them down here....maybe "Dead Grass Brown" but not white...(as a side note the South African "Browns" work well here).

Brit kit is very spendy down here....not much about....there Jungle DPM work well in some places here (as does the almost identical Kiwi DPM). I have an OD PLCE pack that is big enough to live in should the need arise.....I would not want to hump it to far fully laden...!!!!

Good luck in your searches.

Andy

:)

TFA303
March 09, 2004, 04:44
Guys,
Please educate a non-ground pounder. What's the purpose of a smock?
I can see why you'd carry an Arctic one but what about the others?


Interested,
Tom

milhol
March 09, 2004, 05:55
The main purpose of a smock is to keep the wind and subsequent wind chill out, provide some warmth in cooler climes, provide some protection when parachuting, some limited level of waterproofing without the rustle of full on waterproofs, padding when crawling especially in urban, some snipers use the para smock as a base for their ghillie suit as it has a flap that does up under the groin to prevent the ghillie suit from riding up when crawling backwards, paras use it to stop the smock riding up when putting their harness on and when the chute opens, hard to steer when your smock is around your ears.
Apart from all that they look cool, especially the SAS and para smocks. Oh yeah, and they have big pockets which are good for cramming all your crap in.:D

Broadsword
March 09, 2004, 08:50
I'd say a good combat smock is like a field jacket on steroids more or less.
Some of them are very nice. Multiple pockets inside and out, cobra hoods, dummy cord attachment points, wool cuffs, etc. They can cost anywhere from $120.00 like my MOD issue SAS windproof smock on up to $175 like I paid for my issue sniper smock and then it's off to the races with the custom shop smocks ie Arktis, SASS,Drop Zone etc. I got my Arktis waterproof #1015 for $200 and I got dealer cost on it. I've seen smocks costing in exess of $300.00
To the British military especially Infantry, Para's, RM's, SAS, etc. The smock is a load carrying system in itself. They carry alot of survival, E&E kit etc in them.
I'm having trouble finding SASS on the web. Can someone post a link for me?
Thanks,
Broadsword

milhol
March 10, 2004, 03:04
http://www.sass-kit.fsbusiness.co.uk/catalogue16/Smocks_Extras/

Broadsword
March 10, 2004, 08:32
Thanks,
Thats what I was looking for. Now to email them and see if they'll make a smock in Canadian desert.
Broadsword

Sturm Reiter
March 10, 2004, 09:50
Have a question gentalmen,
Would like to have a smock, but want one made of German Flecktarn. I would need something that could be used in a hot, humid type climate. Any of ya'll know of a maker that produces that kind of item? I would appreciate any help that could be given.

Sturm Reiter:fal:

Broadsword
March 10, 2004, 10:06
I know Arktis makes smocks in the German Flek pattern. I think SASS does as well.
Broadsword

SgtHawk
March 12, 2004, 23:02
I got got a X-large German Flextar Parka with a hood from Cheaper Than Dirt or Sportmans for something like $18.00. Also got a small Flextar field shirt for maybe $3-4. I liked the Brit Shirts with the inside pockets but missed the hood.

Took the German Flextar Poncho and shirt to my local tailor and had him sew the two shirt pockets on the inside chest. Had a full width beggers pockets made out of the shirt sewed inside the lower part of the pocket. Plenty of room for a poncho to fit in the main pocket, gloves and watch cap in the other two lower pockets. Tailer charged me $20.00.

Is my favorite light weight pig hunting jacket for about $50. Besides it was fun figuring it out.
Hawk

Mark C
March 14, 2004, 08:57
I have the Drop Zone Recce Smock in CADPAT TW (Temperate Woodland). It is simply outstanding in terms of functionality and quality of manufacture. Like others here, I have owned a variety of smocks over the years - SASS Kit Carry II, Arktis, etc. None came close to the DZ Recce Smock manufactured by Brian Kroon in Edmonton, AB.

There is much discussion of the DZ Recce Smock on Lightfighter.com, under the "Tactical Clothing" forum, including my own review. So those who are interested should drop by there and see what various folks have to say about the product - all of it extremely positive. To see the smock's multitude of features, you should visit the Drop Zone site:

Here's the home-page:

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/home.html

Here's the direct link to the smock:

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/reccesmock.html

Brian doesn't have images of the CADPAT AR (Arid Regions) smock up on his site, but they are available. The TW smocks are made out of the genuine IR-treated, quarpel treated, mil-spec CADPAT NYCO twill material. DZ is one of 3 Canadian after-market gear manufacturers officially licensed by the Canadian Department of National Defence to procure mil-spec CADPAT material direct from the government-contracted textile mills. The others are Frontenac (makers of the horribly inferior CADPAT knock-off uniforms sold on eBay and in surplus stores), and Wheelers (makers of various nylon accessories, but no clothing). Anyone else manufacturing CADPAT gear is either back-dooring their material, or using non-milspec knock-off material without the IR treatment, etc. Quite frankly, I personally wouldn't touch any of them with a 10' pole.

The DZ gear is far from cheap, but this is definitely a case of getting exactly what you pay for. You can pay once for quality, or several times until you finally get it right. The DZ Recce Smock and the CADPAT "Ops Shirt and Pants" are the Cadillac versions of combat clothing IMHO. I just wish I'd had Brian's smock 2 years ago for my Afghan deployment - it would have been very handy in the mountains. Believe me when I say that they are worth every penny of the asking price.

BTW - I am in no way affiliated with Brian Kroon or his products, aside from my status as an extremely satisfied active-duty user of his gear. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

If you have any questions, drop an e-mail directly to Brian. He will be quite happy to discuss his gear with you to ensure that you get what you need.

Hope this helps.

Broadsword
March 14, 2004, 15:51
Thanks Mark,
Great post.
I'm sitting here lusting over one of the Reece smocks. Telling Mamma how badly I need one no matter the $300.00 USD price tag. She looks at me with the, Well, you know the look I'm talking about. I explained to her that when the Communist paratroopers start landing in the front yard WE would each need one in Canadian arid camouflage so we could blend into the terrain and move with cat like swiftness engaging targets with the L1A1 and Steyr SSG69.
Don't know what kind of an impact I had. I'll keep leaving the pictures laying around the house etc. and see how it plays out.
Seriously. I'd consider selling my MOD SAS windproof and issue sniper smock to help finance one of these babies.
Broadsword

mparrish
March 15, 2004, 02:32
Great, another piece of kit to buy . . . :biggrin:

Broadsword
March 15, 2004, 11:25
Parrish, You're one of the biggest gear wh**es I know. Never takes much to sell you on some piece of high speed kit. The SASS Reece smock is just dripping with cool. Theres no way you can resist. Just order one now. Why fight it.
I just sold all that gear I had posted here on Ebay last night. All four items sold so I have a small bit of scratch now. Won't be long till I have enough. I'm thinking real hard about putting my SAS windproof as well as the Sniper smock up for sale to make up the difference on the Reece.
I tell ya. One of them babies in Canadian arid pattern would be the hot ticket up here in the Colorado Rockies. Especially in the cooler months when we're covered in the dormant grasses, sage and fallen pine needles. In the greener late spring early summer months I can just add a bit of natural foliage or a bit of scrim and I think it will work out nicely for that terrain as well. How cool is that? One pattern for year round up here. Maybe a few of us hopeless gear junkies can get together and save on shipping from the UK.
Broadsword

Jen
March 15, 2004, 12:25
Maybe we need a gear junkies forum to satisfy those canvas, cordura, nylon, goretex etc.. urges ;)

I really like that Recce Smock and the Fleece made by Recce as well. I've been debating an Arktis smock, so now I'll have to make a decision.. Arktis or Recce.. hmmmmmm

Broadsword
March 15, 2004, 13:59
Jen,
I've had a couple of the Arktis #1015's. One in OG, one in DPM and one in DANCAM. Mparrish has the Dannish one now. The problem I have with them is the drop liner system. They sandwich the waterproof membrane in between the material. That makes the smock great in cooler weather but once it warms up a bit it'll fry you. Arktis makes pants to match the smock and they warn you right there on the site not to try and hump while wearing them. They say static missions or something to that effect. Bottom line is.... the Arktis is great if it's cooler out but will soon roast you once it warms up. My MOD issue windproof is great. I simply put on an Arktis Antarctica shirt under it when it gets cold and I'm good to go. Strip off the shirt when things warm up. Learned this lesson hiking the fourteen thousand foot mountains here in Colorado. You can start out with eighty degrees or better and in a couple of hours it's thirty degrees and the wind is trying to kill you. I like what I see when I look at that Reece. I'm going to look long and hard at it and see if it's worth the $300.00 price tag. The money really isn't a big issue. Having the best gear I can get for myself and Dijon takes the front seat.
I think a "gear queer" forum would do well here. mparrish would love to moderate it for you.:rofl:
I'm on my way right now to start another gear thread about modular chest rigs.
broadsword

Brian in MN
March 16, 2004, 22:35
What is the windproof DPM stuff like? I have a number of temperate DPM smocks and they are friggin cold in winter. I have been using them like wind parkas and they just don't cut it. I finally switched out to US goretex and have not looked back. It is good to be warm again.

tiger222
March 18, 2004, 13:07
jen

thanks for this great section, i too am a "gear queer" and i'm proud..... though i think i would personally prefer "kit krazy"...

broadsword

there is a company here in los angeles called "major surplus" and they have the heavy "falklands" dpm 3/4 parka's with liners for about $40. if you want me to hand pick one for you - email me your size in centimetres and i will see if i can find one for you.. i am going saturday. picked up a temprate dpm uniform the other day for $25 shirt and pants - going to see if they have any boonie caps.

the falklands kit is very heavy and quite bulky - though for the $$ not a bad deal.

on the windproofs, i was in the uk last november and picked up some desert combat kit, soldier 95 dc trousers, a windproof dc smock (which later i found out is a commercial copy, but very nice, new and for the $68 i spent well worth it) and a sas dc day backpack made by a company called bcb for operations in iraq.

according to the shop keeping in york, it had just come in from a "chap who was in iraq" along with some other desert kit i saw, i believed the story.....

the windproof is great with a fleece underneath and is light and comfortable. and can be removed if needed and isn't too bulky....

regards
S

Broadsword
March 19, 2004, 03:43
My SAS windproof by itself isn't very good in cold weather. You have to layer up under it. I wear an Arktis Antarctica shirt and stashaway shirt underneath. A USGI poly pro under that and I'm usually good to go in all but the most extreme conditions. Then I break out the Canadian Extreme cold weather parka.
Thanks for the offer Steve but I'm holding onto as much cash as I can right now. Got my eye on something I'll hopefully tell everyone about in a few days.
I'm also saving up for a Drop Zone Reece smock in Canadian CADPAT Arid camouflage. Thats going to kill my spending for a while till the budget recovers.
Broadsword

milhol
March 19, 2004, 12:29
Check this out. Some of the best cam I've seen. Take a look at the informal study.
www.whitetail.com

whoops that didn't quite work, try this one www.whitetail.com/predtr01.html

Ordnanceboard
March 25, 2004, 20:17
Hey Guys.

Remember that all the smocks are designed to be worn in conjunction with the other issue kit.

So your Artic Windproof will be cold if you don't wear layers underneath. Same with the trousers, which is why they are high waisted to keep your kidneys warm(ish), and have velcro bottoms to get them off over your quilted liners and boots. Now starting to be replaced by a general issue of hooded ripstop smock in a similar style to cbt 95 uniform. Incidently they are also issued in black ripstop, for specialist units.

The only problem with private purchase smocks whether they are IRR or not, which probably isn't problem for most people.

Broadsword
March 26, 2004, 04:12
Agreed,
I'm a firm believer in the "Layering System" My MOD issue SAS windproof is the smock I have that sees most use. Other than extreme conditions it's usually my outside layer with an Arktis Antarctica shirt, issue wool sweater, USGI poly-pro, or a combination of the above underneath. I have a Canadian extreme cold parka for really cold weather but it's extremely bulky. I'm on the prowl for something to replace it.
Broadsword

mparrish
March 26, 2004, 16:09
Awright brudda, what you have cooking NOW?

Broadsword
March 26, 2004, 20:27
Not really sure. We're comming up on warm weather here in the Colorado Rockies so I figure I have a couple months to figure it out. Don't plan on much high altitude work this year. Gotta get Dijon kitted out and in shape this season.
She's picking up her FAL from our dealer at the gun show in the morning. She's got her five mags already and is expecting fourteen more to arrive by monday. I just ordered up one of them South African shoulder bags for her off the Market Place and have some feelers out for some SAS kit for her. Got a line on another Berghaus Cyclops and plan to put another SAS belt order together for her ie Roll pin belt modified by Custom Tactical Creations (he did a killer job on mine. I'll never wear another equipment belt. Yeah, it's that damn good) P44 water bottle pouch, escape/rat pouch, P58 compass pouch (we're working on land nav) SAS double pouch for her FAL mags, Tree beater on her pack and her favorite stag handle skinner on her belt. Gotta find her a rig of some kind for that stinking cannon she has. She won't even hear of me offing it in favor of a 1911. Says I can buy her a .45 if I want but I'm to keep my butt scratchers off of her .44 :biggrin:
Broadsword

Brian in MN
March 26, 2004, 23:19
Hey, I live in Minnesota, I know all about layering but Brit temperate smocks are COLD. I think it is because they are all cotton. They just do not keep out the cold like goretex or a cotton/synthetic blend. On the plus side they are quiet. Wearing goretex is kinda like walking around wrapped in tin foil.



...which might not be all that bad if your date was really interesting, but I digress.

FranzLiebkind
April 23, 2004, 22:08
Does someone have a handy list of CADPAT providers on the web?

FranzLiebkind
July 02, 2004, 21:44
Originally posted by FranzLiebkind
Does someone have a handy list of CADPAT providers on the web?

BTT

SmokeEater2
July 14, 2004, 16:20
I found a Brit Parachutists smock for $20.00 in a surplus sore this past weekend,Its in good shape except there is no hood with it. I'm assuming they came with hoods as it has 3 buttons under the collar. anyone know of a source for a hood or got one for sale?

CW TUCKER
July 14, 2004, 20:00
Private message sent. I have a set of milit. Cad Pat. size X-large Long. Will trade for FN items. Like new, Hard to find Temperate Zone // CW